Good for the Goose Good For the Gander?

[CatholicRalph]

I love how certain protestants here aren't really into debating beliefs and practice but just accuse. What is evident of this is the many titles that come off of bad articles they found about Catholics or re-interpret articles to make Catholics look bad. This is not genuine nor is it responsible debate. How if the shoe were on the other foot?

*EDIT PER MOD*

And there are many many more. I initially posted more but it didn't match with the forum rules of posting more than 2 links. So I just erased the ones in excess. But the point is the same. So just to be fair protestants have their issues. If there is a real interest in proper debate try that rather than just accusing with out knowledge.

[TP]

Originally Posted by CatholicRalph

I love how certain protestants here aren't really into debating beliefs and practice but just accuse. What is evident of this is the many titles that come off of bad articles they found about Catholics or re-interpret articles to make Catholics look bad. This is not genuine nor is it responsible debate. How if the shoe were on the other foot?

On abuse Scandals:
http:http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,286153,00.html//

Church Drop outs


http://www.bpnews.net/BPnews.asp?ID=26202

And there are many many more. I initially posted more but it didn't match with the forum rules of posting more than 2 links. So I just erased the ones in excess. But the point is the same. So just to be fair protestants have their issues. If there is a real interest in proper debate try that rather than just accusing with out knowledge.

I don't think we should start posts with scandals. When certain protestants do it, it makes that LOOK REALLY bad. I do not think Catholic should be begin posts with scandals, because then Catholics look bad. I think catholic should be above this. Please reconsider in the future.

peace

[TrustMe]

Originally Posted by TP

I don't think we should start posts with scandals. When certain protestants do it, it makes that LOOK REALLY bad. I do not think Catholic should be begin posts with scandals, because then Catholics look bad. I think catholic should be above this. Please reconsider in the future.

peace

Almost all churches have their bad clergy.
We should stick to issues of doctrine and church practice on the board. We are all sinners, and should not judge one another base on our personal sins or the sins of our denominations.

[Attila]

Originally Posted by TrustMe

Almost all churches have their bad clergy.
We should stick to issues of doctrine and church practice on the board. We are all sinners, and should not judge one another base on our personal sins or the sins of our denominations.

We are instructed to BE FRUIT INSPECTORS.

Failure to do so, is one of Satan's BIGGEST ACCOMPLISHMENTS.

[kmerian]

Originally Posted by Attila

We are instructed to BE FRUIT INSPECTORS.

Failure to do so, is one of Satan's BIGGEST ACCOMPLISHMENTS.

But you only see the bad. And, fruit of individuals. NOT religions, institutions or organizations.

[Magic Pudding]

Originally Posted by kmerian

But you only see the bad. And, fruit of individuals. NOT religions, institutions or organizations.

the fruits of the inquisition are not too difficult to notice

[ETGO]

Originally Posted by Magic Pudding

the fruits of the inquisition are not too difficult to notice

An not as easy to hide as they thought.

[SpectatorX]

Originally Posted by Attila

We are instructed to BE FRUIT INSPECTORS.

Failure to do so, is one of Satan's BIGGEST ACCOMPLISHMENTS.

I've been itching to throw this at one of you guys all day, so here goes.

A recent thread that has since been deleted cited that the majority of Jewish groups consider abortion to be a-okay. It cited many of these groups by name and even included a quote of a prominent Jewish pro-lifer who admitted as much. Does this make Judaism in its entirety corrupt?

Here's a tip: Be careful how you answer. You either have to deny Dispensationalism or anticatholicism depending on which way you take this - and we all know that you have no desire to do either.

[CatholicRalph]

My point is missed. Often posters will begin a thread using a bad article to accuse Catholics unjustly. When it can just as easily be done to any protestant denomination. This is often used as a means to accuse rather than what these forums are really for. Discussion and debate on beliefs. So if someone thinks the Catholic Church is "heretical" then the requirement is to prove it rationally not rhetorically as is often done. However, failing to do this often rhetoric is used and bad information such as "Catholic killed 50 million people during the inquisition" when mathmatically and population rates during that time frame could not account for it. Europe would have been de-populated. No real study or documents are given just the word of some yahoo who probably heard it from someother yahoo.

[SpectatorX]

Originally Posted by CatholicRalph

My point is missed. Often posters will begin a thread using a bad article to accuse Catholics unjustly. When it can just as easily be done to any protestant denomination. This is often used as a means to accuse rather than what these forums are really for. Discussion and debate on beliefs. So if someone thinks the Catholic Church is "heretical" then the requirement is to prove it rationally not rhetorically as is often done. However, failing to do this often rhetoric is used and bad information such as "Catholic killed 50 million people during the inquisition" when mathmatically and population rates during that time frame could not account for it. Europe would have been de-populated. No real study or documents are given just the word of some yahoo who probably heard it from someother yahoo.

It wasn't lost on me, for what little that's worth. Check out the problem I posed to Attila; that should cheer you up. It demonstrates that someone who condemns Catholicism for the sins of many of its members must do the same to Judaism in order to use consistent logic. That is, anticatholics must also be antisemitic. This is an especially pointed turn of logic when applied to a well-known Dispensationalist such as Mr. the Hun. I call this tactic the reductio ad antisemitism.

I just with its glorious origination hadn't been deleted by the mods...

[kmerian]

Originally Posted by Magic Pudding

the fruits of the inquisition are not too difficult to notice

What of the Protestant Inquisitions?

[CatholicRalph]

Originally Posted by SpectatorX

It wasn't lost on me, for what little that's worth. Check out the problem I posed to Attila; that should cheer you up. It demonstrates that someone who condemns Catholicism for the sins of many of its members must do the same to Judaism in order to use consistent logic. That is, anticatholics must also be antisemitic. This is an especially pointed turn of logic when applied to a well-known Dispensationalist such as Mr. the Hun. I call this tactic the reductio ad antisemitism.

I just with its glorious origination hadn't been deleted by the mods...

You actually make an excellent point! Its true using the same standard. Unfortunately I think Atilla and others use a sliding rule when it comes to the Catholic Church.

[SpectatorX]

Originally Posted by CatholicRalph

You actually make an excellent point! Its true using the same standard. Unfortunately I think Atilla and others use a sliding rule when it comes to the Catholic Church.

It is precisely in demonstrating this sliding rule that their house of cards will be undone. It creates a feed-back loop inside the Dispensationalist bubble that is irrefutable. I just wish my discussions which demonstrated that hadn't been deleted...

I blame it on that antisemitic guy who derailed the thread. In fact, I'll be so ironic as to blame it on all ****** everywhere. That's right. I'm ******* toward ******. Wrap your head around that!

[SpectatorX]

Originally Posted by kmerian

What of the Protestant Inquisitions?

Nah, nobody notices those. They're not as useful.

[rr1213]

Originally Posted by SpectatorX

I've been itching to throw this at one of you guys all day, so here goes.

A recent thread that has since been deleted cited that the majority of Jewish groups consider abortion to be a-okay. It cited many of these groups by name and even included a quote of a prominent Jewish pro-lifer who admitted as much. Does this make Judaism in its entirety corrupt?

Here's a tip: Be careful how you answer. You either have to deny Dispensationalism or anticatholicism depending on which way you take this - and we all know that you have no desire to do either.

Don't expect any rational responses from the usual anti-Catholic suspects. They are much more likely to post a nasty photo-shop lie about the Church and then sit back and admire their perverse handiwork. Others of the same ilk will then jump of the band wagon saying "oh how brilliant!" "Ditto.....ditto."

[SpectatorX]

Originally Posted by rr1213

Don't expect any rational responses from the usual anti-Catholic suspects. They are much more likely to post a nasty photo-shop lie about the Church and then sit back and admire their perverse handiwork. Others of the same ilk will then jump of the band wagon saying "oh how brilliant!" "Ditto.....ditto."

Man. When you're right, you're right. I always thought of the photoshoppers as being sharks and those "ditto" guys as being those little fish that follow them around eating the leftovers - a sort of symbiotic "I rep you, you rep me" relationship. I probably just nudged my foot over the charity line, but given the targets I think I should be given at least some leeway in that regard.

I don't expect a response because there really isn't one. A person can not be a Dispensationalist and an anticatholic if he desires to have any logical consistency. Likewise, a Catholic cannot be antisemitic without condemning himself for the numerous crimes of Catholics. I really do like to see the "unless you forgive your brother" principle working so blatantly before our very eyes for some reason.









...I really wish that thread hadn't been deleted...

[Lizzy]

Originally Posted by SpectatorX

I've been itching to throw this at one of you guys all day, so here goes.

A recent thread that has since been deleted cited that the majority of Jewish groups consider abortion to be a-okay. It cited many of these groups by name and even included a quote of a prominent Jewish pro-lifer who admitted as much. Does this make Judaism in its entirety corrupt?

Here's a tip: Be careful how you answer. You either have to deny Dispensationalism or anticatholicism depending on which way you take this - and we all know that you have no desire to do either.

I'm not a dispensationalist, but I'll answer. Judaism, is in a sense, a false religion from the time of the NT onward because they deny Jesus as Messiah. However, in Romans Paul states that they (the Jews) have been hardened in part until the full number of Gentiles has come in. Rom. 11:25. Paul admits that it is a "mystery".

He goes on to state:

From the standpoint of the gospel they [Israel] are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God's choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers;

29for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
30For just as you once were disobedient to God, but now have been shown mercy because of their disobedience,
31so these also now have been disobedient, that because of the mercy shown to you they also may now be shown mercy. 32For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all.

Romans 11:28-32

Also, Paul states that we (gentiles) are grafted onto them. So I can't see how we can say Judaism in its entirety is corrupt--because if it is entirely corrupt, than we have been grafted onto a rotten plant.

[SpectatorX]

Originally Posted by Lizzy

I'm not a dispensationalist, but I'll answer. Judaism, is in a sense, a false religion from the time of the NT onward because they deny Jesus as Messiah. However, in Romans Paul states that they (the Jews) have been hardened in part until the full number of Gentiles has come in. Rom. 11:25. Paul admits that it is a "mystery".

He goes on to state:

From the standpoint of the gospel they [Israel] are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God's choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers;

29for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
30For just as you once were disobedient to God, but now have been shown mercy because of their disobedience,
31so these also now have been disobedient, that because of the mercy shown to you they also may now be shown mercy. 32For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all.

Romans 11:28-32

Also, Paul states that we (gentiles) are grafted onto them. So I can't see how we can say Judaism in its entirety is corrupt--because if it is entirely corrupt, than we have been grafted onto a rotten plant.

We have been grafted onto the Kingdom which previously subsisted in Judaism. Now Jews and Gentiles alike are capable of being part of said Kingdom.

I was talking about calling all Jews "abortion-mongering Obama supporters" due to the support given to these causes by many, many Jews and Jewisn organizations. It must be done if one is to do the same to Catholics.

[Lizzy]

Originally Posted by SpectatorX

We have been grafted onto the Kingdom which previously subsisted in Judaism. Now Jews and Gentiles alike are capable of being part of said Kingdom.

I was talking about calling all Jews "abortion-mongering Obama supporters" due to the support given to these causes by many, many Jews and Jewisn organizations. It must be done if one is to do the same to Catholics.

Only a fool would call all Catholics, or all Jews, "abortion-mongering Obama supporters".

[SpectatorX]

Originally Posted by Lizzy

Only a fool would call all Catholics, or all Jews, "abortion-mongering Obama supporters".

Quite correct! Though, personally, I wouldn't use the word "fool" for the purposes of maintaining an atmosphere of charity. Furthermore, it is logically inconsistent to do so to one group without doing so to the other. This is sort of my Dispensationalist anticatholic check-mate maneuver - a reductio ad antisemitum if you will.