Announcement

Collapse

Message to all users:

Edited to add more information for posters:

https://carm.org/forum-rules

Super Member Subscription
https://carm.org/carm-super-members-banner-ad-signup

As most of you are aware, we had a crash to forums and were down for over two days. We did have to do an upgrade to the vbulletin software to fix the forums and that has created changes, VB no longer provide the hybrid or threaded forums. There are some issues/changes to the forums we are not able to fix or change. Also note the link address change, please let friends and posters know of the changed link to the forums. For now this is the only link available, http://forums.carm.org/vb5/ but if clicking on forum on carm.org homepage it will now send you to this link.

Again, we are working through some of the posting and viewing issues to learn how to post with the changes, you will have to check and test the different features, icons that have changed. You may also want to go to profile settings,since many of the notifications, information in profile, also to update/edit your avatar by clicking on avatar space, pull down arrow next to login for user settings.

Edit to add "How to read forums, to make it easier."
Pull down arrow next to login name upper right select profile, or user settings when page opens to profile,select link in tab that says Account. Then select/choose options, go down to Conversation Detail Options, Select Display mode Posts, NOT Activity, that selection of Posts will make the pages of discussions go to last post on last page rather than out of order that happens if you choose activity threads. Then be sure to go to bottom and select SAVE Changes in your profile options. You can then follow discussions by going through the pages, to the last page having latest responses. Then click on the other links Privacy, Notifications, to select viewing options,the forums get easier if you open all the tabs or links in your profile, user settings and select options. To join Super Member, pull down arrow next to login name, select User Settings and then click on tab/link at top that says Subscriptions.

Thank you for your patience and God Bless.

Diane S
https://carm.org/forum-rules
See more
See less

The Pret Conundrum

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Roby, the Revelation was SIGNIFIED by signs/symbols/figurative language!

    Do you really believe the Great Harlot in Revelation 17:5 was a literal woman?

    Take care,
    And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void of offense toward God, and toward men. Acts 24:16

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Sower View Post
      Roby, the Revelation was SIGNIFIED by signs/symbols/figurative language!

      Do you really believe the Great Harlot in Revelation 17:5 was a literal woman?

      Take care,
      Sower, where did Roby say that?! You should hit the Quote button before you post your response to his posts, so the readers can see it without having to go to that prior post to see what you are responding to! Here's that former post that you should have quoted before responding to it ---------------------------
      Originally posted by roby3 View Post

      You're STILL wrong!

      The Greek word rendered "siglify' here is "semaino", which means "to make known". The NASV renders it "communicated", while the NIV renders it "made known". It has nothing to do with figurative/ symbolic language.

      Your prob is that you cannot separate eschatological prophecies from the prophecy Jesus made about the "days of vengeance", which did indeed fall upon "that" generation, as Jesus prophesied to the Pharisees in Matt. 23:35-36. That was entirely-different from the end-time events!

      Now, again - If you still believe all of the Olivet Discourse & the Revelation is fulfilled, you should be able to tell us who the beast & false prophet were, when the beast committed the AOD, what the marka the beast looked like, and when JESUS RETURNED, SEEN BY ALL, as He said Himself!

      It's not that I don't believe jesus' words - I DO believe everything He prophesied will cometa pass, exactly as he said.

      What I DON'T believe is the pret hooey saying those things have already happened, when it's quite-obvious they HAVEN'T yet happened!

      Gonna try to answer my questions, or admit you can't???????????????????????????????????????

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Sower View Post
        Roby, the Revelation was SIGNIFIED by signs/symbols/figurative language!

        Do you really believe the Great Harlot in Revelation 17:5 was a literal woman?

        Take care,
        Remember, the angel EXPLAINED THE VISION of Rev. 17 & EXPLAINED THE MEANINGS OF THE VARIOUS CHARACTERS seen in it, in the latter verses of that chapter!

        Rev. 17:7 And the angel said to me, “Why [f]do you wonder? I will tell you the mystery of the woman and of the beast that carries her, which has the seven heads and the ten horns.

        8 “The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and go to destruction. And those who dwell on the earth, whose name has not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, will wonder when they see the beast, that he was and is not and will come. 9 Here is the mind which has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits, 10 and they are seven kings; five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain a little while. 11 The beast which was and is not, is himself also an eighth and is one of the seven, and he goes to destruction. 12 The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but they receive authority as kings with the beast for one hour. 13 These have one purpose, and they give their power and authority to the beast.

        14 These will wage war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, because He is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those who are with Him are the called and chosen and faithful.”

        15 And he *said to me, “The waters which you saw where the harlot sits, are peoples and multitudes and nations and tongues. 16 And the ten horns which you saw, and the beast, these will hate the harlot and will make her desolate and naked, and will eat her flesh and will burn her up with fire. 17 For God has put it in their hearts to execute His purpose by having a common purpose, and by giving their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God will be fulfilled. 18 The woman whom you saw is the great city, which reigns over the kings of the earth.”



        Yes, there are symbols used thruout Scripture, but their meanings are clear. A harlot represents a false church or religion. A dragon represents Satan. A lamb represents Jesus. The meanings of those, & a few other symbols are quite clear from context & an overview of Scripture.

        And a little reminder, M'am - All other preterism discussion is useless without any **PROOF** that the events prets SAY have already happened. actually HAVE already happened! So far, you're *ZERO* in the PROOF dept!

        Comment


        • Rodney, thanks for proving my point!

          Roby said, "And the language is NOT figurative/symbolic! It's as literal and factual as 1+1=2."

          You have proving the language IS figurative/symbolic, albeit factual.
          And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void of offense toward God, and toward men. Acts 24:16

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Sower View Post
            Rodney, thanks for proving my point!

            Roby said, "And the language is NOT figurative/symbolic! It's as literal and factual as 1+1=2."

            You have proving the language IS figurative/symbolic, albeit factual.
            Knowing the events you SAY have already happened are NOT found in history, you try to duck behind the "symbolism" excuse, the main one prets use to attempt to fill in the gaps in history between their pronouncements and REALITY. Well, it WON'T WORK!

            The destruction of Jerusalem & the temple were LITERAL, not symbolic events, as are the ongoing events prophesied by Jesus - war, rumor of war, etc. There's NO valid reason to not believe the other events jesus prophesied conserning His return aren't JUST-AS-LITERAL, & WILL cometa pass precisely as He said.

            """PRETERISM - PHONY AS A FORD CORVETTE!"""

            Comment


            • Originally posted by roby3 View Post

              Knowing the events you SAY have already happened are NOT found in history, you try to duck behind the "symbolism" excuse, the main one prets use to attempt to fill in the gaps in history between their pronouncements and REALITY. Well, it WON'T WORK!

              The destruction of Jerusalem & the temple were LITERAL, not symbolic events, as are the ongoing events prophesied by Jesus - war, rumor of war, etc. There's NO valid reason to not believe the other events jesus prophesied conserning His return aren't JUST-AS-LITERAL, & WILL cometa pass precisely as He said.

              """PRETERISM - PHONY AS A FORD CORVETTE!"""
              Roby, unlike you, I search the Scriptures for my prophetic information, not television, newspapers or history books. All the events promised in the book of Revelation literally happened SHORTLY after the book was written per Rev. 1:1, some of the events were described in figurative/symbolic language and some were not, you must study both the Old and NEW testament to determine the difference (WORKS for me)!

              Take care,
              And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void of offense toward God, and toward men. Acts 24:16

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Sower View Post

                Roby, unlike you, I search the Scriptures for my prophetic information, not television, newspapers or history books. All the events promised in the book of Revelation literally happened SHORTLY after the book was written per Rev. 1:1, some of the events were described in figurative/symbolic language and some were not, you must study both the Old and NEW testament to determine the difference (WORKS for me)!

                Take care,
                No, those events have NOT yet happened! If they HAD, you could name the beast & false prophet, describe the marka the beast, point out the events of the great trib such as the death of all life in the seas, describe the returna Jesus, & tell us all about His millenial reign from Jerusalem.

                You needta do a REALITY CHECK, and stop trying to "symbolize" the prophesied events for which you can find no proof they've already happened.

                """HISTORY AND REALITY TRUMP ALL PRETERIST ASSERTIONS!"""

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Sower View Post

                  Roby, unlike you, I search the Scriptures for my prophetic information, not television, newspapers or history books. All the events promised in the book of Revelation literally happened SHORTLY after the book was written per Rev. 1:1, some of the events were described in figurative/symbolic language and some were not, you must study both the Old and NEW testament to determine the difference (WORKS for me)!

                  Take care,
                  FYI Sower, the BOR was written in 95 AD by the Apostle John, while he was exiled on the Isle of Patmos by the emperor Domitian! The the Preterist date of Jesus' so called return in 70 AD falls off its foundation of sand! Preterism is just another one of Satan's systems of Lies & deceptions! If Jesus returned in 70 AD, then the 1000 years would have ended in 1070 AD and we would be on the NEW earth with no seas or oceans ( Rev.21:1 ), but we are still on the old earth with seas & oceans Sower! Also Rev.20:11-15 ( the GWTJ ) would be done & over with so no one born after 1070AD would have to worry about getting tossed into the LOF if they reject Jesus as their Lord & Savior! Case closed on Preterism forever!

                  Comment


                  • Roby, did Jesus tell his twelve disciples...

                    "So when they persecute YOU [twelve disciples] in one town, flee to the next, because I tell 'all' of YOU with certainty that YOU 'will not' have gone through all the towns of Israel BEFORE the Son of Man COMES." Matthew 10:23

                    Yes or No?
                    And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void of offense toward God, and toward men. Acts 24:16

                    Comment


                    • Rodney, FYI John said he wrote the BOR during the reign of the "sixth king"...

                      Revelation 17:10 And there are "seven kings:" five are fallen, and ONE is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short time.

                      The "sixth king" was, Nero 54AD-June, 68AD, the time John wrote the BOR.

                      BTW, what king reigned in 95AD, and what was the number of his succession?
                      And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void of offense toward God, and toward men. Acts 24:16

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Sower View Post
                        Rodney, FYI John said he wrote the BOR during the reign of the "sixth king"...

                        Revelation 17:10 And there are "seven kings:" five are fallen, and ONE is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short time.

                        The "sixth king" was, Nero 54AD-June, 68AD, the time John wrote the BOR.

                        BTW, what king reigned in 95AD, and what was the number of his succession?
                        As John receives this vision of seven kings ( Kingdoms, Sower ), five have already fallen! They were (1 ) Assyria, ( 2 ) Egypt, ( 3 ) Babylon, ( 4 ) Medo-Persia, and ( 5 ) Greece! # ( 6 ) is Rome, at the time John receives this revelation on the Isle of Patmos in 95 AD when the Emperor ( Not King ) was Domitian ( Not Nero who was also the Previous emperor [ Not King ] of Rome, Sower ), and # ( 7 ) will be Revived Rome with the AC or MOL as the one in charge ( Not King ) at that future time when Dan.9:27 gets started, just after those of 1 Thess.4:17 get Taken out of the way ( 2 Thess.2:7-8 ) Via the Pre-Trib. Caught Up ( Rapture ), so the MOL can the Reveal himself as he kicks off that final 7 years ( called the 7 Year Trib. in Dan.9:27, Sower ) by confirming the covenant ( Peace Treaty in the Middle East ) ! Case closed on Preterism ( one of Satan's systems of Lies & Deceptions )!

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Sower View Post
                          Roby, did Jesus tell his twelve disciples...

                          "So when they persecute YOU [twelve disciples] in one town, flee to the next, because I tell 'all' of YOU with certainty that YOU 'will not' have gone through all the towns of Israel BEFORE the Son of Man COMES." Matthew 10:23

                          Yes or No?
                          Yes, He did.

                          BUT...

                          When He said that, He hadn't left yet. If you read on, into Matt.11 & beyond, you'll see that Jesus sent His disciples out to preach, and then He Himself went out to teach & preach elsewhere. They were in or near Capernaum. And we see in subsequent that Jesus went to Capernaum several times, once with His mother & brothers.

                          Jesus sent the disciples out, but we see that later they were all together again, with Jesus.THAT'S the "coming" He was referring to in Matt. 10.

                          Comment


                          • Sower, while you've been providing red herrings and bunny trails, you have FAILED to answer the following:

                            OK, who was the beast? The false prophet?

                            What did the marka the beast look like?

                            When were the seas turned to blood by a huge meteor?

                            When was all green grass burned up?

                            When did JESUS return, seen by ALL, and when did He take over all government on earth?

                            Now. if you can provide truthful, correct answers to these questions, you might get somewhere with preterism, but so far you've avoided them like a dose of ebola.

                            If the events you SAY have already happened, have indeed already happened, you should have no trouble answering these questions!

                            Comment



                            • Roby, the readers "know" what COMING Jesus was referring to in Matthew 10:23. You lose "all" credibility when you insult our intelligence by claiming Jesus was talking about COMING to his disciples, after he returned from teaching and preaching in Capernaum.

                              Take care,
                              And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void of offense toward God, and toward men. Acts 24:16

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Rod.ney View Post
                                As John receives this vision of seven kings ( Kingdoms, Sower ), five have already fallen! They were (1 ) Assyria, ( 2 ) Egypt, ( 3 ) Babylon, ( 4 ) Medo-Persia, and ( 5 ) Greece! # ( 6 ) is Rome, at the time John receives this revelation on the Isle of Patmos in 95 AD when the Emperor ( Not King ) was Domitian ( Not Nero who was also the Previous emperor [ Not King ] of Rome, Sower ), and # ( 7 ) will be Revived Rome with the AC or MOL as the one in charge ( Not King ) at that future time when Dan.9:27 gets started, just after those of 1 Thess.4:17 get Taken out of the way ( 2 Thess.2:7-8 ) Via the Pre-Trib. Caught Up ( Rapture ), so the MOL can then Reveal himself as he kicks off that final 7 years ( called the 7 Year Trib. in Dan.9:27, Sower ) by confirming the covenant ( Peace Treaty in the Middle East ) ! Case closed on Preterism ( one of Satan's systems of Lies & Deceptions )!
                                Bump to Sower!

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X