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A question for Christians who deny the Trinity

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  • #31

    nothead replied
    02-12-17, 03:39 PM
    Originally posted by Aeg4371 View Post

    Of course not. Nothead like many anti Trinitarians need to deny one thing in order to affirm another thing.Like they affirm Jesus is the Son of God and so for that reason alone,they must need to deny Jesus is God Himself.

    Only humanistic rationalism can justify such a view. Never mind carnal reasoning is not even close to adequately expressing verities of the divine.

    Verities of the what? Verily, if Jesus was God the Son, he would be called "God the Son
    ."
    Jesus is called God the Son because He is the consubstantial Word of God.And the Word was with God and the Word was God.He is the radiance and exact imprint of God nature.God nature is eternal and God nature is Divinity."Therefore then thou begat the co eternal to whom thou saidst,"this day have I begotten thee".

    You protest too much.And for what?

    Comment


    • #32

      Theo Book replied
      02-12-17, 05:22 PM
      Originally posted by The Barrd View Post
      Do you worship Jesus Christ?

      No! I OBEY Jesus who commands me to "Worship the Father."

      I believe Jesus who instructs me: God is Spirit, I am flesh and Bone; TRUE WORSHIPPERS will worship THE FATHER.


      God is Spirit - [John 4:24]

      Spirit does not have flesh and bone [Luke 24:39-40
      Jesus is flesh and bone - [Luke 24:39]

      True worshippers will worship the Father [John 4:23][/b]

      I believe the Inspired writings of the Holy Spirit who Identifies who and what Jesus is, for my consideration:
      "
      "And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ."(Luke 2:26)[/B][ton Xriston kuriou]

      "He said unto them, But whom say ye that I am? Peter answering said, The Christ of God."(Luke 9:20)
      God is Spirit and Jesus albeit a man, is that same virtus spirationis just as the Father is virtus spirationis and likewise the Holy Spirit is same virtus spirationis.

      What point to you intend to make by stating "I only worship the Father", when in fact the Father Son and Holy Spirit are undivided supremely being itself subsistent absolutely indeterminate.

      Contrary to popular semi Arian belief,"God is Greater than what is contained in any relative name.Evident by the fact the He told Moses on the mount I AM that I AM, and the only begotten Son which is in the bosom of the Father He has declared Him.

      Hope that helps.
      Last edited by Aeg4371; 02-12-17, 11:48 PM. Reason: correction

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by dannyfortruth View Post

        There are two types of gentiles in scriptures. One is totally pagan in origin and the other one are the lost sheep of Israel. The one considered for salvation is the latter and not the former. For the salvation is of the Jews - John 4:24
        So then, God didn't really mean it when He told Isaac that all the families of the earth would be blessed through his seed?

        Gen 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
        Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

        I guess I might just as well toss my Bible in the trash and resign myself to condemnation as one of those "evil kenites"....

        First though, why did Jesus send His disciples to "all nations" with the Good News?


        Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
        Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
        Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

        Or maybe I'll just believe God...

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by The Barrd View Post

          So then, God didn't really mean it when He told Isaac that all the families of the earth would be blessed through his seed?

          Gen 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
          Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

          I guess I might just as well toss my Bible in the trash and resign myself to condemnation as one of those "evil kenites"....

          First though, why did Jesus send His disciples to "all nations" with the Good News?


          Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
          Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
          Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

          Or maybe I'll just believe God...
          No need to toss the scrolls away but we need to be tossed from the testimony of scriptures. You used OT scriptures to prove your point but where does it ever uses Jesus, Christ, or Christian anywhere in all of Hebrew scriptures and there lies interpretation of all families of the earth. What seems on surface to man isn't what Yahuah meant. 

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by dannyfortruth View Post

            No need to toss the scrolls away but we need to be tossed from the testimony of scriptures. You used OT scriptures to prove your point but where does it ever uses Jesus, Christ, or Christian anywhere in all of Hebrew scriptures and there lies interpretation of all families of the earth. What seems on surface to man isn't what Yahuah meant.**************

            You do know that Abraham was not a Jew, right?
            And you know that Jesus Christ told His disciples to go into all nations?

            By "Hebrew scriptures", do you mean the Old Testament? No, the OT does not use the terms Jesus, Christ, or Christian...but they do speak of a son of David, whose Kingdom will have no end...

            Do you believe that the Holy Scriptures, i.e. the Bible, were inspired by God? I'm pretty sure that God knew that "all the nations of the earth" would include Gentiles.

            Act 11:25 Then departed Barnabas to Tarsus, for to seek Saul:
            Act 11:26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

            You do know that Antioch was a city in Greece, right? You are aware that a Greek would be a Gentile?

            In fact, Paul went all over the place, carrying the message of Jesus to Gentiles everywhere he went.

            No, my misinformed friend...Jesus is not for Jews only. In fact, they rejected Him.

            Jesus came to save the world...not just one nation.



            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Aeg4371 View Post


              Jesus is called God the Son because He is the consubstantial Word of God.And the Word was with God and the Word was God.He is the radiance and exact imprint of God nature.God nature is eternal and God nature is Divinity."Therefore then thou begat the co eternal to whom thou saidst,"this day have I begotten thee".

              You protest too much.And for what?
              "Son of God" is not "God the Son." "God the Son" is not in the Bible, beemer. Nice try howsomever in promoting your willy wiles.
              Shema will change the Christian World.

              Turn it upside down. To where it once was, the POV of JESUS, his DISCIPLES and his SERVANTS.

              Know God YHWH Elohim is One. And love Him with all. Mk 12, red letter words.

              Comment


              • #37
                [QUOTE=Aeg4371;n4415775]
                Originally posted by nothead View Post

                On the contrary Jesus is One with the Father and thus One with God.Therefore then at the right hand is taken literally in an allegorical and equivocal sense.Being that Divinity does not actually posses composite hands.

                David is not the consubstantial Word Himself proceeding in the likeness of sinful flesh to become obedient unto death..David was like you and I sinful flesh.

                Yes Jesus tells us who to worship and we do so without the exclusion or separation of the one who is commanded.

                Poor humanistic reasoning on your part Nothead. Clearly Thomas spoke by the relation of identity as he proclaimed My Lord and my God.

                You semiArians speak in the same polytheism as Mormons.I worship nobody but God/YHWH Elohim not an(any ol) elohim.

                This is not true, since being HEN or the Koine "one" had as closest parallel Jn 17 "that they (believers) may be one as we are one."

                Believers cannot be ONE as you speaketh, Spock.
                Shema will change the Christian World.

                Turn it upside down. To where it once was, the POV of JESUS, his DISCIPLES and his SERVANTS.

                Know God YHWH Elohim is One. And love Him with all. Mk 12, red letter words.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by The Barrd View Post


                  You do know that Abraham was not a Jew, right?
                  And you know that Jesus Christ told His disciples to go into all nations?

                  By "Hebrew scriptures", do you mean the Old Testament? No, the OT does not use the terms Jesus, Christ, or Christian...but they do speak of a son of David, whose Kingdom will have no end...

                  Do you believe that the Holy Scriptures, i.e. the Bible, were inspired by God? I'm pretty sure that God knew that "all the nations of the earth" would include Gentiles.

                  Act 11:25 Then departed Barnabas to Tarsus, for to seek Saul:
                  Act 11:26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

                  You do know that Antioch was a city in Greece, right? You are aware that a Greek would be a Gentile?

                  In fact, Paul went all over the place, carrying the message of Jesus to Gentiles everywhere he went.

                  No, my misinformed friend...Jesus is not for Jews only. In fact, they rejected Him.

                  Jesus came to save the world...not just one nation.


                  Friend, that's what I believed all these years as you do. When I read the book of Acts carefully I found out that Greeks were the Jews of dispersion. Paul always went to synogogues on Sabbaths where he found both Jews and Greeks. What were Greeks doing in synagogues on Sabbaths? They were Jews of dispersion. Come to Acts Ch 2 and see so many Jews of dispersion come to YarUshalam to worship as required by Turah on the feast of Pentecost? You name anyone in scriptures who by name was saved and I will show you that from scriptures that gentiles that are called are all Jews of dispersion. No heathen gentiles were ever there. Abraham was an Hebrew as Gen 14 testifies. What I want to tell you that Jesus is a fake heathen name and so is His title Christ and so is Christianity. There is not a single prophecy in Hebrew scriptures that mentions all these. Greek language is a disconnect from Hebrew as NT was originally written in Hebrew with the True Name of Messiah as Yahusha Ha Mashyach. HE came in His Father's Name which is Yahuah. Yahusha means Yahuah is Savior /Salvation. 

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by GaryMac View Post

                    No' I worship his Father who is God who sent him and sends us all who are sons of God no different at all.
                    You ain't THE Son of God as is Jesus Christ,

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by dannyfortruth View Post

                      Friend, that's what I believed all these years as you do. When I read the book of Acts carefully I found out that Greeks were the Jews of dispersion. Paul always went to synogogues on Sabbaths where he found both Jews and Greeks. What were Greeks doing in synagogues on Sabbaths? They were Jews of dispersion. Come to Acts Ch 2 and see so many Jews of dispersion come to YarUshalam to worship as required by Turah on the feast of Pentecost? You name anyone in scriptures who by name was saved and I will show you that from scriptures that gentiles that are called are all Jews of dispersion. No heathen gentiles were ever there. Abraham was an Hebrew as Gen 14 testifies. What I want to tell you that Jesus is a fake heathen name and so is His title Christ and so is Christianity. There is not a single prophecy in Hebrew scriptures that mentions all these. Greek language is a disconnect from Hebrew as NT was originally written in Hebrew with the True Name of Messiah as Yahusha Ha Mashyach. HE came in His Father's Name which is Yahuah. Yahusha means Yahuah is Savior /Salvation.**************
                      Complete fantasy. The N.T. was written in Greek.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by john wilcox View Post
                        Complete fantasy. The N.T. was written in Greek.
                        You need to hide behind your fantasized Christianity but it doesn't disprove the truth. 

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          [QUOTE=nothead;n4417895]
                          Originally posted by Aeg4371 View Post


                          This is not true, since being HEN or the Koine "one" had as closest parallel Jn 17 "that they (believers) may be one as we are one."

                          Believers cannot be ONE as you speaketh, Spock.
                          Believers are NOT one with The Father as is The Son.
                          Case closed.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            So much confusion....

                            The answer is simple. Quit trying to shoehorn these wild notions into the Bible, and just read what is there.

                            It's really not nearly as complicated as people try to make it seem.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by dannyfortruth View Post

                              There are two types of gentiles in scriptures. One is totally pagan in origin and the other one are the lost sheep of Israel. The one considered for salvation is the latter and not the former. For the salvation is of the Jews - John 4:24
                              Yes, the lost sheep of Israel mingled with the Gentiles and were in their lands and migrated to the Isles as well. Many who consider themselves Gentiles do not realized that they are the lost sheep of Israel and the teachers in the church system should know that but they do not teach that.

                              It is interesting that many of the kingdom of Judah especially the Jews know who they are but rejected the Messiah. However, the lost sheep of Israel know not who they are and think they are Gentiles and for all practical purposes they were because God divorced them. Yet these people who lost their identity many have receive the good news and have converted to Yahusha as their Yahuah and Savior.

                              Sorry, Danny, I am still not familiar with using Hebrew names like you are.

                              Elohym bless you,

                              SeventhDay

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by SeventhDay View Post

                                Yes, the lost sheep of Israel mingled with the Gentiles and were in their lands and migrated to the Isles as well. Many who consider themselves Gentiles do not realized that they are the lost sheep of Israel and the teachers in the church system should know that but they do not teach that.

                                It is interesting that many of the kingdom of Judah especially the Jews know who they are but rejected the Messiah. However, the lost sheep of Israel know not who they are and think they are Gentiles and for all practical purposes they were because God divorced them. Yet these people who lost their identity many have receive the good news and have converted to Yahusha as their Yahuah and Savior.

                                Sorry, Danny, I am still not familiar with using Hebrew names like you are.

                                Elohym bless you,

                                SeventhDay
                                The lost sheep of Yasharal are those who were taken captive and intermingled with heathens by marriage. The children born to them forgot Yahuah and adopted the customs of heathens. But Yahuah didn't forget them as He promised much before Yasharals inheritance of promised land through Mashaeu 4:26  “I shall call the heavens and earth to witness against you on that day, that you soon completely perish from the land which you pass over the Yardĕn to possess – you do not prolong your days in it but are completely destroyed. 
                                Deu 4:27  “And יהוה shall scatter you among the peoples, and you shall be left few in number among the gentiles where יהוה drives you. 
                                Deu 4:28  “And there you shall serve mighty ones, the work of men’s hands, wood and stone, which neither see nor hear nor eat nor smell. 
                                Deu 4:29  “But from there you shall seek יהוה your Elohim, and shall find, when you search for Him with all your heart1 and with all your being. Footnote: 1Jer. 29:13. 
                                Deu 4:30  “In your distress, when all these words shall come upon you in the latter days, then you shall return to יהוה your Elohim and shall obey His voice. 
                                Deu 4:31  “For יהוה your Elohim is a compassionate Ěl, He does not forsake you, nor destroy you, nor forget the covenant of your fathers which He swore to them. Yahuah who knows his works from the beginning of the world said ''Let him (Yapath) dwell in the tents of Shem
                                Isn't it so clear that Masha prophesied to Yasharal before even they entered the promised land. Act 17:1  And having passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonike, where there was a synangogue of the Yehuḏim. 
                                Act 17:2  And according to his practice, Sha’ul went in unto them, and for three Sabbaths was reasoning with them from the Scriptures, 
                                Act 17:3  explaining and pointing out that the Messiah had to suffer and rise again from the dead, and saying, “This is the Messiah, יהושע, whom I proclaim to you.” 
                                Act 17:4  And some of them did believe, and a large number of the worshipping GREEKS, and not a few of the leading women, joined Sha’ul and Sila.
                                What were the large number of Greeks doing in a Yahudi synangogue? They came to hear Torah every Shabbat which shows they were Greek speaking Yahudi's called the Hellenists
                                Act 6:1  And in those days, when the taught ones were increasing, there arose a grumbling against the Heḇrews by the Hellenists/GRECIANS, because their widows were overlooked in the daily serving.
                                Now I know why many can't see what some see. They see because they  have been brought back to the Abary roots by Yahuah while the pagan Gentiles only trample the outer court
                                Mat 15:24  And He answering, said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Yisra’ĕl.”
                                Cornelius, Ludia were Yahudi's in dispersion. Ludia was visiting Synagogue on Shabbats where prayer was made and Torah was read. What was Ludia if she was a Gentile doing in a synagogue if she was not a Greek speaking Jew? Paul visited the synagogue and showed from scriptures that Mashiyach is Master and Yahuah opened her heart to heed the things spoken by Paul
                                Cornelius was said to be worshiping Aluahym and doing kind deeds and well spoken by Yahudi's before he even met Kefa
                                 Which pagan Gentile worships Aluahym and was pleasing to Yahuah?
                                John 12:20....
                                 20  And there were certain Greeks among those coming up to worship at the festival.
                                If u read further, these Greek Jews wanted to meet Yahusha. They came to worship at the festival of Pesach and were among those who laid palm branches saying Baruch Haba Bashem Yahuah
                                Day of Shavuot/Pentecost who are the Ones who heard the works of Aluahym in their languages Arabs, Parthes Etc? They were Jews of dispersion who obeying Torah which says every male atleast 3 times a year needs to come upto Yerushalam but not without an offering
                                John 12:12  On the next day a great crowd who had come to the festival, when they heard that יהושע was coming to Yerushalayim,

                                 13  took the branches of palm trees and went out to meet Him, and were crying out, “Hoshia-na! Psa. 118:25Blessed is He who is coming in the Name of יהוה, a Psa. 118:26 the Sovereign of Yisra’ĕl!”
                                So much proof is there. Moreover to whom was the covenant made with? House of Yasharal. Heb 8:10 - Yahuah renewed the same covenant
                                The mandate or commission is for us to go to the lost sheep of the house of Yasharal-Matt 10:23
                                We see the pattern that Paul and Barnabas on every Shabbat went to the synagogues to preach Mashiyach and proved from scriptures he is the Mashiyach. The Yahudi's and the Yunani speaking Yahudi's gathered on Shabbat in the synagogues for prayer and reading of Torah
                                John10:16 “I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also,
                                and they shall hear My voice; and they shall become one flock with one shepherd.” The parable of the prodigal son points to the Son who left his father's house living a rioutous life and feeding pigs and then coming to his senses and coming back to father's house. Yahudy is the one who is spiritual as tagged by Alahym and not men as not all Yahudym by natural birth. True that the Yahudym are born through fleshly line but not are all true Yahudym but the ones who are called by Yahuah. All instances of salvation happening in the book of Acts are of the lost sheep of Yasharal and not heathen gentiles. If you can understand these things then you are that lost sheep of Yasharal and have been brought back to Hebraic roots. Heathens can't understand a thing. That's I have fully disowned Christianity but I preach to them because they are using scriptures at least through translations.
                                The definition of the lost sheep of Yasharal is a Yahudy in dispersion adopting the culture and religion of the country. He is called a gentile in contrast to a natural Yahudy living in Yahudah/Judah/Jerusalem. But this gentile is again contrasted against heathen gentile who have had no links to Yasharal. 
                                Last edited by dannyfortruth; 02-17-17, 12:17 PM.

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