by, 01-20-13 at 09:24 AM (4763 Views)
[QUOTE=Messenger;3892736][QUOTE=Stan53;3889355]Danny you're talking in circles in your supercilious manner again, NOT communicating. We all acknowledge that God is supreme. We all know He is a mystery. You say He is unfathomable yet you assert you understand what He is. You presume because he is unfathomable, that you and your ilk are the only ones who can express who He is and what His nature is, but you would be wrong. You are NOT saying anything different than we espouse here accept you do it in a condescending and supercilious manner for a reason I cannot fathom. That you don't understand the Trinity as expressed by many is NOT the issue. It is that you want all to accept your own limited understanding of an unfathomable God that you agree exists. If it makes you feel better to express God as three dimensions or personas or identities or entities or non-corporeal beings, no problem. Just stop acting like you have the inside track with a few others here who know and like your particular vernacular. Father/Son/Holy Spirit individually and totally demonstrate GOD to us lowly mortals. You still haven't explained in a clear and CONCISE manner how your view is any different than most here.[/QUOTE]
Stan the distinction of Father Son and Holy Spirit are shown to us in immanence yet in transcendence there is only God with his Logos and his Spirit. The substance of God was manifested in immanence for DISTRIBUTION and not MULTIPLICATION.
Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, [B]piercing even to the dividing asunder[/B] of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, [B]and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
1Co 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
When we read 1 Corin 2:11 in the light of Heb 4:12 we see that Godís thoughts and intents of his heart are revealed through his spirit which knoweth all things about God and is internal to him, itís part of him. Itís His breath and not a person just as your spirit within you knows everything about yourself and is not a separate person. And the distinction is because of the Logos of God who is the two edged sword because Logos was externalized from God who is transcendent to be manifested to creation finally face to face with creation as the Son (God in immanence). The substance of God was manifested in immanence for DISTRIBUTION and not MULTIPLICATION.
Doctrine of Trinity multiplies the substance (hypostasis) by making persons of God.
I will make a short presentation to show the Distribution of the substance.
1Jo 1:5 ∂ This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that [B]God is light,[/B] and in him is no darkness at all.
The SOURCE is LIGHT
1 Tim 6:16-this LIGHT is unapproachable
1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, [B]dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see:[/B] to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
This same LIGHT is revealed and radiated through the face of Christ
2Co 4:6 For God, who commanded the [B]light(phos) to shine out of darkness[/B], [B]hath shined in our hearts[/B], [B]to give the light(photismos)[/B]of the knowledge of the glory of God [B]in the face of Jesus Christ[/B].
This light is synonymous with IMMORTALITY
Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light(phos) of men.
2Ti 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, [B]and hath brought life and immortality to light(photizo)[/B] [B]through the gospel:[/B]
The Greek word for LIGHT is phos which means to shine or make manifest and the Greek word photizo is used where the light is radiated through an agency
photizo: to shed rays, i.e. to shine or (transitively) to brighten up (literally or figuratively):--enlighten, illuminate, (bring to, give) light, make to see.
examples of usage of photizo: 2 Tim 1:10 'light through the gospel'---gospel is the agency
Luke 11:36 candle is the agency
John 1:9 every man (all elect) are the agency
Eph 1:18 understanding enlightened
Ep 3:9 'see' understanding/eyes is the agency
Heb 6:4 those once enlightened
Heb 10:32 elect were illuminated
photismos: illumination. used only twice in the same chapter in 2 Corin 4:4 and 2 Corin 4:6 and is in reference to the illumination that one receives through Christ.
The source is God who is PHOS who is unapproachable (1 Tim 6:16) in transcendence who through divine utterance made it possible for the means for the LIGHT to be made manifest through CHRIST who is his image.
PHOS is synonymous with immortality/LIFE and this PHOS was manifested through CHRIST who lighteth (photizo) every man that cometh into the world John 1:9
This same LIGHT is shining in our hearts illuminating us (photismos) 2 Corn 4:6 'shined in our hearts giving us the knowledge of the glory of God' and this LIGHT is also available in the agency i.e. the gospel, that whoever believes the gospel will have the light in him.
The Logos is LIFE and is the LIGHT
1Jo 1:1 ∂ That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the [B]Word of life; (Logos of zoe)[/B]
You can look up the word 'zoe' to understand that it refers to the LIFE that I am talking about.
Joh 1:4 In him was life (zoe); and the life was the light of men.
So the LIGHT is distributed to us through LOGOS made flesh in me. This is the two edged sword and dividing asunder for distribution and this distribution is done by Godís Spirit (His breath) and thatís how the Son of God is in our hearts (Christ in us the hope of glory). Because of the distribution we are the light of the world as the same light radiates through us through Christ who is ĎIn USí. He does the work through US.
Would like to give you one more example
De 4:24 For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God.
Heb 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.
Ps 50:3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: [B]a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.[/B]
Isa 66:15 ∂ [B]For, behold, the LORD will come with fire,[/B] and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
And yet the one coming with fire is Jesus
2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 [B]In flaming fire[/B] taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
Mt 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, [B]and fire:[/B]
Ac 2:3 And there appeared unto them [B]cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.[/B]
God is a consuming fire, the one who came out from God (John 16:27, 17:8) is Christ who was externalized as the Son and he is the one spoken of coming with fire (in judgment) and he is one who is the refiner's fire purifying his people as can be seen with the cloven tongues of fire which sat on each of them in the upper room. Each cloven tongue of fire was not a 'PERSON' or a 'SPIRIT'. The SOURCE is GOD who is consuming fire, unseen, invisible and manifested and seen through a visible image and that is CHRIST.
Mal 3:2 But who may abide the day of his coming? [B]and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire,[/B] and like fullers' soap:
Trins cannot see the 'DIVIDING ASUNDER' and that's why there is wrong conclusion of 3 persons.
Jer 23:29 [B]Is not my word like as a fire?[/B] saith the LORD; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces?
Now see the result of the DISTRIBUTION
Jer 5:14 Wherefore thus saith the LORD God of hosts, Because ye speak this word, [B]behold, I will make my words in thy mouth fire[/B], and this people wood, and it shall devour them.
All elect of God represented by the two witnesses
Re 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.[B]5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies[/B]: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
Hope this helps to understand the DISTRIBUTION?