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  1. Thread: 1 John 2:2

    by LCF
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    976

    The underlined part above... How is it different...

    The underlined part above... How is it different from "repent, turn to God AND BE FORGIVEN BY GOD?" Again, not seeing your distinction.
  2. Thread: 1 John 2:2

    by LCF
    Replies
    102
    Views
    976

    Can you give me one example of one being...

    Can you give me one example of one being reconciled but not forgiven, or forgiven but not reconciled? I'm not seeing your distinction.
  3. Thread: 1 John 2:2

    by LCF
    Replies
    102
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    976

    What do you mean by ''have been atoned?" Do you...

    What do you mean by ''have been atoned?" Do you mean provision for their atonement has been made, or do you mean their sins have been forgiven/cleansed?

    If the unrepentant person's sins have been...
  4. Thread: 1 John 2:2

    by LCF
    Replies
    102
    Views
    976

    This is the view of "unlimited atonement" that I...

    This is the view of "unlimited atonement" that I was attempting to correct earlier with you. When you say 'sins have been atoned for' you seem to think that the sin of the unrepentant is forgiven,...
  5. Thread: 1 John 2:2

    by LCF
    Replies
    102
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    976

    I understand your dilemma, but may I suggest that...

    I understand your dilemma, but may I suggest that you may be making the same error that some Calvinist are making by thinking of atonement as a one to one payment for each individual sin...as if he...
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    I was disagreeing with your application of...

    I was disagreeing with your application of Unlimited atonement, as if no provisions limit its application. As to post death repentance, I still don't believe that is a topic meant for this forum.
  7. Thread: 1 John 2:2

    by LCF
    Replies
    102
    Views
    976

    I like to think of it like a cure for an illness....

    I like to think of it like a cure for an illness. If you look to the son in faith you will be healed (like the serpent on the pole). The illness and its effects remain until you look to the cure. ...
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    I think the issue is a defining of the terms. If...

    I think the issue is a defining of the terms. If you google the term "efficacy" it may become more clear. I do believe the provision is for all (unlimited) but it only benefits those who trust in...
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    Yet, not a single non-Calvinistic scholar...

    Yet, not a single non-Calvinistic scholar believes or teaches this... on the other hand many determinists do ultimately put the culpability of moral evil back onto God, so not a tit for tat argument...
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    So, because God tells us to forgive others you...

    So, because God tells us to forgive others you still think the request merits not only the forgiveness, but the taking on of the criminal's punishment and the giving up of your car to the guy who...
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    Praise God. Mark this post so I can link to it...

    Praise God. Mark this post so I can link to it every time non-Calvinists are accused of teaching a 'works' based salvation.

    Free to do what? Leave? Believe? Repent? All debatable and not...
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    Simple observer? That is what you got out of...

    Simple observer? That is what you got out of that?!? He observes some things, but obviously He is also actively involved in that which is HOLY and RIGHTEOUS...working the evil out for his good...
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    Not the point. The point of the analogy was...

    Not the point. The point of the analogy was whether or not the criminal earned forgiveness simply on the basis that he requested it...more than that did he deserve for the one offended to take on...
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    Which is why I was giving it...to help him...

    Which is why I was giving it...to help him understand our view on the subject.

    Provisional atonement is the ONLY biblical model given in scripture and I'm the only one to present biblical examples...
  15. Thread: 1 John 2:2

    by LCF
    Replies
    102
    Views
    976

    You will need to study the doctrine of...

    You will need to study the doctrine of provisional atonement. Examples are the first passover and the serpent lifted on the pole in the dessert. Healing (or the avoiding of impending wrath) was...
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    That is fine and all but it is beside the point. ...

    That is fine and all but it is beside the point. The analogy was given to show how the request itself doesn't merit the forgiveness and you didn't even address that point. Does the man's act of...
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    Your first sentence is absolutely correct, you...

    Your first sentence is absolutely correct, you are NOT understanding my comments. We, non-Calvinists, do believe placing trust in Christ for our salvation is man's responsibility, not God's. But we...
  18. Thread: 1 John 2:2

    by LCF
    Replies
    102
    Views
    976

    This is where you are mistaken. Provision can be...

    This is where you are mistaken. Provision can be made for God's wrath to be turned away from all without resulting in universalism. Provision was made for all of Israel to avoid the wrath of the...
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    That is just it...all orthodox Christians DO in...

    That is just it...all orthodox Christians DO in fact affirm that faith is necessary for salvation, whether its a result of an irresistible work of God's regeneration or a free response of man to...
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    You are presuming causality into knowledge. This...

    You are presuming causality into knowledge. This is linear (before-after/cause-effect) finite reasoning, something that God is not confined by. You are limiting God to a linear timeline, as if he...
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    True... If you ask a Calvinist why faith is not...

    True... If you ask a Calvinist why faith is not a work in their system they will point to irresistible (casually deterministic) work of God which caused faith, yet don't they believe man's decision...
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    Seth, Just had a thought about another...

    Seth,

    Just had a thought about another inconsistency within Calvinism's argument against our view on this matter.

    If every choice of man is causally determined by God including the choice to...
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    [QUOTE=SethProton;5834944] This is a VITAL...

    This is a VITAL point in our debate over this issue. Understanding this point alone solves MOST of the disagreement between the two camps, because this misunderstanding of 'works' is at the heart of...
  24. Rj, I don't believe the Calvinist would describe...

    Rj, I don't believe the Calvinist would describe their "compatibilism" in such a manner, no, but I do believe the analogy accurately depicts the logical implications of their claims, yes.

    Why? As...
  25. It's an illustration of INABILITY to do otherwise...

    It's an illustration of INABILITY to do otherwise as it relates to GUILT. If I'm made by another person to desire to do something in such a way that I COULD not have done otherwise there would be NO...
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