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    If you don't mind, I'll jump in here as I don't...

    If you don't mind, I'll jump in here as I don't have much time. Perhaps at a later time, I'll offer thoughts on the rest of the material that I did not deal with before the comment quoted above. ...
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    Well, so that we can get to "exactly" where we...

    Well, so that we can get to "exactly" where we may disagree, I'll simply state what I agree with, and then I'll state where I have problems.

    First, I completely agree that the "I" makes decisions....
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    I'm not sure what simpletruth will say, but I'll...

    I'm not sure what simpletruth will say, but I'll add a comment.
    First, God's ordaining the means as well as the end is a critical aspect that one needs to understand. Many apparently do not follow...
  4. and my toaster said the opposite . . . ooo pop...

    and my toaster said the opposite . . . ooo pop tarts!
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    I would answer "no". Why not? you ask. To be...

    I would answer "no". Why not? you ask. To be "in Him" is to be united with Him in His resurrection power; it is to have a new nature; it is to have acquired justification. The passage in question...
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    I asked because you stated the following. "The...

    I asked because you stated the following. "The individuals were not chosen in advance by name,"
    But the text says, "He chose us . . ." Maybe you need to rework your comment, or clarify. It...
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    What does the word "us" mean?

    What does the word "us" mean?
  8. Will the poster listen, or just sweep it under...

    Will the poster listen, or just sweep it under the rug again? We all sit and wait.
  9. just ignore all the fallacies before, stay...

    just ignore all the fallacies before, stay consistent.

    Now, you are just switching terms. You have inserted your indeterminist idea into the word "option", crammed it into David and simpletruth's...
  10. Oh wow, what a surprise, another straw man...

    Oh wow, what a surprise, another straw man because you assumed your own indeterminist (from God) ideas of choice rather than listening. And then you repeated the oft refuted pantheism fallacy straw...
  11. Oh LCF, are you really truly that blind? Have...

    Oh LCF, are you really truly that blind? Have you really already forgotten the context of this discussion? One need only look back a few posts, to the very post that "Ask Mr. Religion" is...
  12. First, the question framing fallacy demonstrates...

    First, the question framing fallacy demonstrates the falsity of the neutrality assumption in how you define asking questions. Have you quit beating your wife yet, LCF? Oh my, don't take it...
  13. ttruscott, Please consider a painting of a...

    ttruscott,

    Please consider a painting of a house. You can have an inside and an outside of the house in the painting, but what meaning does "inside" and "outside" have beyond the realm of the...
  14. Exactly!

    Exactly!
  15. Yikes! While I completely agree in regard to...

    Yikes! While I completely agree in regard to "grace," "salvation," "two parties," "God being the author of salvation," "God's bestowing salvation," etc., I cannot agree with the idea where one makes...
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    Well, if you want people to make choices that...

    Well, if you want people to make choices that don't have a foundation in existence or being, then be my guest. That kind of definition of a choice is nonsense and another contradiction. However,...
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    No, I hold to the law of identity and...

    No, I hold to the law of identity and non-contradiction. Maybe you don't hold to those?

    Free from what? Himself? His own nature? Free to be otherwise that what he is? Your freedom IS the...
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    Umm, you do realize that we had two separate...

    Umm, you do realize that we had two separate discussions, and this progression is about "equivocation". The other was about your contradictions. If you have the hybrid view. This conversation is...
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    Yea! We are getting somewhere! That would...

    Yea! We are getting somewhere! That would require him to "be" otherwise than himself, which was my original critique. We have come full circle back to the same contradiction pointed out before. ...
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    That you hold to your "ideas" of...

    That you hold to your "ideas" of self-determination as actual is not doubted. Please seek to follow the point. It is that you assumed that only yours was what defined people's responses, or that...
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    goodness, poor form. which points out...

    goodness, poor form.

    which points out different types of meaning for the word "can", next

    Wow, you are taking the imagery way too far. It is an attempt to make the posts memorable. You do...
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    :) akk, i have to spread the reputation around.

    :) akk, i have to spread the reputation around.
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    red herring. I thought that you used to debate? ...

    red herring. I thought that you used to debate? Goodness. Your equivocation is the issue. Now if you can't handle the critique and thus change the issue, that is fine. I'll then go ahead and...
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    No need to get all accusatory, I was just...

    No need to get all accusatory, I was just pointing out that it would be near impossible for you to think outside of the self-contradicting system that you are in, since the system defines all the...
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    You are equivocating again due to your...

    You are equivocating again due to your "vagueness". You just ignored my post to that effect. You are presupposing your own VERSION of self-determination while ignoring the other, and so you...
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