Quote Originally Posted by james View Post
Well brother ray you made this statement: "Now the posttribs don't get off lightly either, they have to explain Jesus' answer in Luke 17, when they asked him "where Lord", he answered "where the body is, there also the vultures will be gathered"...."

Since you brought up Matthew 24 I believe the better question is "when?" At Matthew 24:3 the disciples came to Jesus, "And as He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying. "Tell us, WHEN will these things be, and WHAT will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?"

Now, I'm not going to go through all of Matthew 24 but rather just highlight a few points starting with Matthew 24:14, "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world for a witness to all the nations, and then the end shall come." There will be believers alive on the earth at this point. Now, vs15, "Therefore WHEN you see the Abomination of Desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand)," To me this is a big time "tip off" as to giving us a time frame.

Then from verses 16-28 Jesus explains what will be happening. Then Jesus says (vs29) "But immediately after the tribulation of those days The Sun will be darkened etc. Vs30 "And then the sigh of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory."

Now, I'm not going to go through the rest of the chapter. The point is we have at least a clue as to when this will all take place. Furthermore, the Apostle Paul backs up what Jesus stated at 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3. "Now we request you, brethren with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together to Him, vs2, that you may not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. Vs3, Let no one in any way deceive you, for (or because) it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, AND THE MAN OF LAWLESSNESS IS REVEALED, THE SON OF DESTRUCTION,"

Now, I use to be a pre-tribulationist for many years but years ago after a lot of study I changed my view and am now a "post-tribulationist." I will give you a couple of important reasons why even though there are many. Luke 21:28 where Jesus is talking, "But when these things begin to take place, (what things-Matthew 24) straighten up and lift up your heads, because (or why) your redemption is drawing near." Now again the Apostle Paul backs up what Jesus stated. 2 Thessalonians 1:5-7, "This is a plain indication of God's righteous judgment so that you may be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which indeed you are suffering, vs6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, vs7, and to give RELIEF/REST to you who are afflicted and to us as well WHEN (when does the church get rest?) when the Lord Jesus Christ shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire," I don't know about y'all but I'm really looking forward to "resting" forever from this upholstered cesspool called earth.

I'll leave you with one more point to make on this issue and it's in the form of a question? At 1 John 2:18 John states, "Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that ANTICHRIST IS COMING, even now many antichrists have arisen; from this we know that it is the last hour." If the pre-tribulation view is correct, why would the Apostle John warn us about the antichrist coming if nobody is going to be here when he comes?

Finally, I'll close with John's words at 1 John 2:28, "And now, little children, abide in Him, so that when He appears, we may have confidence and not shrink away from Him in shame at His coming." One more thing to keep in mind. As Christians we should not make this issue a point of division so much so that if one does not believe your particular view they are not really Christians. Be gratefull that Jesus is coming for His church.

IN GOD THE SON,
james
Then How do you Explain the Bride ( Who gets Raptured - 1 Thess.4:15-18 ) is Already in Heaven for the Wedding ( Rev.19:7-8 ) BEFORE Jesus makes His Post-Trib. ( Matt.24:29 ) 2nd coming ( Rev.19:11-21 & 20:1-6 ), where YOU claim He then Raptures His Bride? She was Already Raptured to Heaven ( Rev.19:7-8 ) Before the Post-Trib. Return, that she ( His Bride ) actually Follows Him back to Earth as part of the Armies of Heaven ( Rev.19:14 ) Dressed in the same Linnen she was in at the Wedding ( Rev.19:8 )! So you need to ReFigure with out AVOIDING this Truth in GOD's Word ( His Scriptures inspired by the HS )!