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If Jesus Christ walked this earth today . . . . .

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  • #61
    Originally posted by Romishpopishpapist View Post

    And since you cannot provide proof that a law requiring a priest to violate the seal of Confession would actually help one victim of abuse, your post is worthless.



    The ends do not justify the means, sir] Jesus does not want any sinner to continue with their repulsive behavior, especially those who would abuse children, and those who would cover that up. But Jesus would not adopt the tactics of Satan to get them either. The ends do not justify the means. Jesus would find a way to stop the abuse without violating the seal of a Sacrament he himself instituted. A priest would do likewise.

    You see, sir, this does not have to be an either/or false dichotomy.



    On what? That the seal of Confession is absolute? Yes.
    There is no scripture to confirm confession some "sacred seal" ... just is there is no scripture that a man has the power to forgive that sin or any sin... all made up out of whole cloth
    Last edited by Calsgal; 01-14-2020, 05:48 PM.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Romishpopishpapist View Post

      And since you cannot provide proof that a law requiring a priest to violate the seal of Confession would actually help one victim of abuse, your post is worthless.



      The ends do not justify the means, sir. Jesus does not want any sinner to continue with their repulsive behavior, especially those who would abuse children, and those who would cover that up. But Jesus would not adopt the tactics of Satan to get them either. The ends do not justify the means. Jesus would find a way to stop the abuse without violating the seal of a Sacrament he himself instituted. A priest would do likewise.

      You see, sir, this does not have to be an either/or false dichotomy.



      On what? That the seal of Confession is absolute? Yes.
      -So would Jesus allow pedophiles to abuse children for decades in the rcc like the priests did? Do you think Jesus would have done 'likewise'?

      -So would Jesus have His 'church' pass around for decades the pedophiles from one parish to another to 'stop' the abuse? Seems that didn't work so well. Decades and decades of abuse.
      Would Jesus have done 'likewise'?
      Last edited by Dennis; 01-14-2020, 09:15 PM.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by Dennis View Post

        -So would Jesus allow pedophiles to abuse children for decades in the rcc like the priests did? Do you think Jesus would have done 'likewise'?

        -So would Jesus have His 'church' pass around for decades the pedophiles from one parish to another to 'stop' the abuse? Seems that didn't work so well. Decades and decades of abuse.
        Would Jesus have done 'likewise'?
        Asked and answered.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Nondenom40 View Post

          But you keep saying things like; Jesus commands...All anyone is asking for is, where? Did a pope say 'Jesus commands'? If so where? And what proof does he have?
          Sir, the fact that the Church DOES IT--is proof that this was taught by Jesus and the Apostles.

          Why do you not consider that evidence?

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by Romishpopishpapist View Post

            Sir, the fact that the Church DOES IT--is proof that this was taught by Jesus and the Apostles.

            Why do you not consider that evidence?
            So nothing the church has ever done went against the teachings of Jesus or his apostles???
            You may want to revisit that at your earliest convenience. That fails.
            Last edited by Nic; 01-14-2020, 11:49 PM.
            1Corinthians 1:30-31
            30
            And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption, 31 so that, as it is written, “Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord.”

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Romishpopishpapist View Post

              Sir, the fact that the Church DOES IT--is proof that this was taught by Jesus and the Apostles.
              ...
              Including sin?
              1Pet 1:18,19 ... redeemed with ... the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

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              • Sparky
                Sparky commented
                Editing a comment
                Good point.

            • #67
              Originally posted by Romishpopishpapist View Post

              Confession was more public and involved the bishop and a lengthy process of penance.
              Could you point out where in scripture God demands we do penance for our sins?

              Comment


              • #68
                Originally posted by Romishpopishpapist View Post

                Sir, the fact that the Church DOES IT--is proof that this was taught by Jesus and the Apostles.

                Why do you not consider that evidence?
                You keep moving the goal posts. First its, "Jesus commands..." When i ask where, you come back with "the church says so." You'll forgive me if i'm not convinced. You place your trust in a church thats true because it says its true. Thats circular. Sola ekklesia. And one last thing. If its proof that it was taught by Jesus and the apostles, you have one small issue in that, its not recorded by a single author of any n.t. book. Just saying it don't make it so.
                Rom 5:1
                5 Therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, NASB

                Rom 5:6
                6 For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. NASB

                Rom 5:8
                8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. NASB

                Rom 5:10
                10 For if while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. NASB

                Comment


                • #69
                  Originally posted by Romishpopishpapist View Post

                  Sir, the fact that the Church DOES IT--is proof that this was taught by Jesus and the Apostles.
                  ...
                  no, if the RCC does it that is more likely proof that neither Jesus or the apostles taught it.

                  Comment


                  • #70
                    Originally posted by Romishpopishpapist View Post

                    Right--because the American system of jurisprudence is the only and absolute standard of what constitutes evidence and proof.



                    No, my official answer is that I cannot give evidence of this because you have defined evidence in such a narrow sense as to make it impossible to present evidence. When you just redefine what constitutes evidence so that the evidence I present isn't evidence, how am I supposed to give evidence?
                    By actually giving evidence.. as in Quoting Jesus. You said he commanded it. Quote Him.



                    Comment


                    • #71
                      Originally posted by Nondenom40 View Post

                      But you keep saying things like; Jesus commands...All anyone is asking for is, where? Did a pope say 'Jesus commands'? If so where? And what proof does he have?
                      Now you are just being unreasonable! LOL. That is so unfair to ask him to actually give you proof that Jesus commanded such a thing!!!!! Don't you know that he can say whatever he wants to say that Jesus said and not have to give any evidence! You are asking for far too much!

                      Comment


                      • #72
                        Originally posted by Sparky View Post

                        Now you are just being unreasonable! LOL. That is so unfair to ask him to actually give you proof that Jesus commanded such a thing!!!!! Don't you know that he can say whatever he wants to say that Jesus said and not have to give any evidence! You are asking for far too much!
                        I know right? Catholics love making various grand claims, but are short on providing answers.
                        Rom 5:1
                        5 Therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, NASB

                        Rom 5:6
                        6 For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. NASB

                        Rom 5:8
                        8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. NASB

                        Rom 5:10
                        10 For if while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. NASB

                        Comment


                        • #73
                          Originally posted by Sparky View Post

                          By actually giving evidence.. as in Quoting Jesus. You said he commanded it. Quote Him.


                          Maybe he would need to quote from a secret book so he cannot do so???lol

                          Comment


                          • #74
                            Originally posted by PeanutGallery View Post
                            Including sin?
                            No sir.

                            Confession is a LITURGICAL Act. The worship of the Church--that is what the Church does in her Liturgy is a mechanism of Tradition. So my point was to say that---based on the fact that the Church has the Liturgical act of Confession is evidence that this is revealed by God.

                            Comment


                            • #75
                              Originally posted by Sparky View Post

                              By actually giving evidence.. as in Quoting Jesus. You said he commanded it. Quote Him.
                              Actually there are Scripture verses where Jesus explicitly gives the Holy Spirit to the Apostles and then tells them to forgive men's sins. And you well know this because Catholics have given that verse on this site multiple times. When Catholics give that verse, you Protestants just reinterpret it according to your ideology.

                              You know full well that a lack of Scriptural support for our Catholic Faith is not the real issue. Why should I bother quoting Scripture and giving you scriptural support when whatever scripture I give you---you will just turn around and reinterpret it so it means whatever it is you want it mean?

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