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  • Originally posted by illini1959 View Post

    sigh.

    If you receive Christ as your Saviour, you are then a member of His church.

    That's how you 'join'.

    Capiche?
    Partly true but how can you explain one lord, one baptism, one faith?

    Comment


    • Originally posted by ramcam2 View Post

      Their history can't go past the 10th century, so how can they refute the claims of the one true church?
      The Eastern churches' claim their history began at the same time the RCC's does, actually before, because the Eastern churches were established before Rome.

      Unless you want to state that the RCC can't go past the 10th century as well?

      The schism didn't suddenly destroy the exiting Eastern churches and another new set of completely different Eastern churches were created.

      The Eastern churches continued on, and according to them - with no change from apostolic times.

      Something the RCC can't claim since we all know that the RCC added more requirements to salvation.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Nimbus View Post

        The Eastern churches' claim their history began at the same time the RCC's does, actually before, because the Eastern churches were established before Rome.

        Unless you want to state that the RCC can't go past the 10th century as well?

        The schism didn't suddenly destroy the exiting Eastern churches and another new set of completely different Eastern churches were created.

        The Eastern churches continued on, and according to them - with no change from apostolic times.

        Something the RCC can't claim since we all know that the RCC added more requirements to salvation.
        the eastern churches even before the see of Rome was established recognized Peter's authority.

        After the schism they lost continuity when each went on his own authority. Only the Catholic Church remained with the see of Rome as the authority and that is past the 10th century until today.

        Post#720

        Comment


        • Originally posted by ramcam2 View Post

          the eastern churches even before the see of Rome was established recognized Peter's authority.

          After the schism they lost continuity when each went on his own authority. Only the Catholic Church remained with the see of Rome as the authority and that is past the 10th century until today.

          Post#720
          The Eastern churches gave honor to Rome, but not submission to its claims of primacy. Their structure was the same before the schism, as it was after the schism. So, the claim that they went on their own authority is inaccurate.

          Rome was the one who 'went on his own authority', the Eastern churches didn't agree.

          Peter was in Antioch for a couple of years, Antioch was where believers were first called Christians. Paul was also at Antioch for a period of time. So, what was Antioch lacking that Rome supposedly had, that elevated Rome higher than Antioch?

          Comment


          • Balshan
            Balshan commented
            Editing a comment
            Good question

        • Originally posted by Nimbus View Post

          The Eastern churches gave honor to Rome, but not submission to its claims of primacy. Their structure was the same before the schism, as it was after the schism. So, the claim that they went on their own authority is inaccurate.

          Rome was the one who 'went on his own authority', the Eastern churches didn't agree.

          Peter was in Antioch for a couple of years, Antioch was where believers were first called Christians. Paul was also at Antioch for a period of time. So, what was Antioch lacking that Rome supposedly had, that elevated Rome higher than Antioch?
          Are you claiming they do recognize Petrine authority?

          they are each to his own.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by illini1959 View Post

            sigh.

            If you receive Christ as your Saviour, you are then a member of His church.

            That's how you 'join'.

            Capiche?
            The lutherans believe baptism is the rite of entry to the church.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by ramcam2 View Post

              Are you claiming they do recognize Petrine authority?

              they are each to his own.
              No, they never viewed Roman as the Grand Poobah, ruler over all, that Rome claimed. That old "first among equals" thing - which is a way of giving honor to someone with words.

              In other words, it is a toothless honorific.

              As the eldest of my siblings, I am "first among equals" - doesn't mean I rule them or have authority over them.

              The Roman bishop did what Jesus told the apostles not to do, when an ambitious mother attempted to get her two sons into positions of authority among the disciples.

              But Jesus called them to Himself and said, "You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great men exercise authority over them. "It is not this way among you, but whoever wishes to become great among you shall be your servant, and whoever wishes to be first among you shall be your slave; ...

              The Roman bishop in pride, decided he would exercise authority over the Eastern churches. And in doing so he went his own way, rejecting his equals, and became his own authority.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Nimbus View Post

                No, they never viewed Roman as the Grand Poobah, ruler over all, that Rome claimed. That old "first among equals" thing - which is a way of giving honor to someone with words.

                In other words, it is a toothless honorific.

                As the eldest of my siblings, I am "first among equals" - doesn't mean I rule them or have authority over them.

                The Roman bishop did what Jesus told the apostles not to do, when an ambitious mother attempted to get her two sons into positions of authority among the disciples.

                But Jesus called them to Himself and said, "You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great men exercise authority over them. "It is not this way among you, but whoever wishes to become great among you shall be your servant, and whoever wishes to be first among you shall be your slave; ...

                The Roman bishop in pride, decided he would exercise authority over the Eastern churches. And in doing so he went his own way, rejecting his equals, and became his own authority.
                How can they join to Peter when they are not even joined too each other? A good example is an ecumenical council. They do not have one for centuries now. How can they for each one is his own authority.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by ramcam2 View Post

                  Partly true but how can you explain one lord, one baptism, one faith?


                  One Lord - Yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist. 1 Cor 8:6

                  One baptism - For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—...1 Cor 12:13

                  One faith - For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. Eph 2:8-9
                  Romans 10:9 Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by ramcam2 View Post

                    The lutherans believe baptism is the rite of entry to the church.
                    So?

                    I don't look to denominations for my doctrine, ram. Thought you'd have seen that by now.
                    Romans 10:9 Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by ramcam2 View Post

                      How can they join to Peter when they are not even joined too each other? A good example is an ecumenical council. They do not have one for centuries now. How can they for each one is his own authority.
                      The Eastern churches are in unity and don't appear to have any interest in subjugating themselves to the bishop of Rome's delusions of grandeur.

                      They haven't had a council, because they didn't change anything. Unlike the RCC who had additional councils in order to introduce novelties in regards to salvation.

                      Rome has always been wound a little to tight in regards to their presumptions of their authoritay.

                      Peter and Paul were in Antioch - so why should Rome be higher on the chain than Antioch?

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Nimbus View Post

                        The Eastern churches are in unity and don't appear to have any interest in subjugating themselves to the bishop of Rome's delusions of grandeur.

                        They haven't had a council, because they didn't change anything. Unlike the RCC who had additional councils in order to introduce novelties in regards to salvation.

                        Rome has always been wound a little to tight in regards to their presumptions of their authoritay.

                        Peter and Paul were in Antioch - so why should Rome be higher on the chain than Antioch?
                        wake up, wake up, wake up!!!

                        we heve the pope in rome as our leader.

                        ok, give me the name of the leader of the eastern orthodox ?

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by illini1959 View Post

                          So?

                          I don't look to denominations for my doctrine, ram. Thought you'd have seen that by now.
                          so, you are your own authority?

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by illini1959 View Post



                            One Lord - Yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist. 1 Cor 8:6

                            One baptism - For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—...1 Cor 12:13

                            One faith - For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. Eph 2:8-9
                            faith meaning the belief in the traditional doctrines/teachings of a religion.
                            you have to qualify what faith means.

                            do you re-baptize, do you believe in infant baptism, do you believe in baptism for the remission of sins??? I asked you these, because some protestants do.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by ramcam2 View Post

                              faith meaning the belief in the traditional doctrines/teachings of a religion.
                              you have to qualify what faith means.

                              do you re-baptize, do you believe in infant baptism, do you believe in baptism for the remission of sins??? I asked you these, because some protestants do.
                              Therein lies your problem, your lack of understanding of faith.

                              Comment

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