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  • Originally posted by ramcam2 View Post

    not much is written regarding the early life of Stephen but he was a deacon of the church. in acts6: 1-6, the apostles instituted deacons in response to the complaints of the Hellenistic jews and they chose Stephen. this is proof of his apostolic lineage.
    He served food - are you saying that he was a bishop?

    Apostolic lineage includes deacons?

    Comment


    • Originally posted by ramcam2 View Post

      not much is written regarding the early life of Stephen but he was a deacon of the church. in acts6: 1-6, the apostles instituted deacons in response to the complaints of the Hellenistic jews and they chose Stephen. this is proof of his apostolic lineage.
      Originally posted by Nimbus View Post

      He served food - are you saying that he was a bishop?

      Apostolic lineage includes deacons?
      what about monks or nuns or alter boys?

      Comment


      • Originally posted by ramcam2 View Post

        not much is written regarding the early life of Stephen but he was a deacon of the church. in acts6: 1-6, the apostles instituted deacons in response to the complaints of the Hellenistic jews and they chose Stephen. this is proof of his apostolic lineage.
        The apostles instituted deacons everywhere they went and as churches grew, more and more pastors, elders, deacons were ordained. It's not like a lineage one can trace. They were everywhere then as they are now.
        Romans 10:9 Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

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        • Originally posted by By His Mercy View Post

          His disciples would move into NT times very soon.

          And the warnings Jesus gave to them...He had just left the temple (Mt 24:1), then His disciples came to Him privately (Mt 24:3) and Jesus gave a discourse on the end times. There are many interpretations of the kingdom, etc., but in v. 42 Jesus says "Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming." Then come the parables...and if one is found behaving badly or not prepared, they go to the place of weeping and gnashing of teeth. These warnings are about a Master leaving His slaves, then returning to judge.

          His return will be in New Testament times, right? So just who are the slaves who will be told "well done" and "you wicked slave"? Remember, Jesus had left the Temple, and this was spoken to His disciples who gathered with Him privately. He would be put to death and would rise from the dead just days later.

          -BHM
          Irrelevant.. the New Testament (Covenant) was not sealed until Jesus shed His blood on the cross... What we read in the gospels is actually Old Testament

          Comment


          • Originally posted by ramcam2 View Post

            and it reminds me of these...….

            rom10: 15 And how can there be preachers, unless preachers are sent on their errand?....

            john20: 21 Once more jesus said to them, Peace be upon you: I came upon an errand from my Father, and now, I am sending you out in my turn.

            2tim2: 2 … the doctrine which I hand down, give it into the keeping of men thou canst trust, men who will know how to teach it to others besides themselves.

            titus1:5 If I left thee behind in Crete, it was to put all in order, where order is still needed. Ii is for thee to appoint presbyters, as I enjoined, in each city.

            now, to prove your point....can you go to the testimony of the early Christians?
            You are assuming that what was taught has any similarity to Roman Catholicism

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            • Originally posted by tester View Post

              our church has sent preachers to other states and other countries
              They are all well equipped to teach the doctrines of the apostles
              they plant churches with the goal that those churches plant others

              is that acceptable to you?
              thanks. that is very noble and good of your church (sorry, I do not know the name of your church).

              but, what is the absolute guarantee that what is taught and spread is the divine truth?

              Comment


              • Originally posted by illini1959 View Post

                The apostles instituted deacons everywhere they went and as churches grew, more and more pastors, elders, deacons were ordained. It's not like a lineage one can trace. They were everywhere then as they are now.
                we can trace their lineage. the internet is a vast resource. just give the name of the head/chief pastor (optional) and the church with location. you can do that for every catholic priest, also.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Calsgal View Post

                  You are assuming that what was taught has any similarity to Roman Catholicism
                  why not check the testimony of the early Christians? majority are orthodox in their writings despite the span of 5 centuries and 3 continents.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Nimbus View Post

                    He served food - are you saying that he was a bishop?

                    Apostolic lineage includes deacons?
                    Stephen was a deacon and acts6 proved the apostles instituted him to that position.

                    can you trace the lineage of your church's hierarchy?

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by ramcam2 View Post

                      Stephen was a deacon and acts6 proved the apostles instituted him to that position.

                      can you trace the lineage of your church's hierarchy?
                      Yeah. Jesus > Paul > Gentiles

                      I'm in the Gentiles group.

                      The papal lineages are bogus. The years don't add up, there are gaps, there were times of multiple popes.

                      I've read the history, Ram, and these kind of RCC assertions may have worked successfully in ages past when access to information was so limited, but they do not any more.

                      It is an established fact that a large number of papal documents were frauds and forgeries used to expand their authority and power in the world. It is also an established fact that the ECF histories and writings contain contradictions and errors.

                      God told the Jews that He could turn rocks into children of Abraham - and he didn't need Abraham's semen. God can turn my stony heart of rock into a child of God, without the papacy's lineage semen.

                      And another thought, and not meant meanly.

                      The reality is that the RCC, for centuries, sought and destroyed believers who did not bow down to the papal claims of authority. They killed the people and they destroyed their writings. Or they coerced them into submission, and destroyed their writings.

                      For the RCC to harp on the lineage of Christians is like having the people who murdered your tribe attempt to mock you for not having grandparents.

                      And finally, not to put too fine a point on it - I don't *want* to be a part of the RCC lineage you seem so proud of. The history of the papal lineage is a grotesque one that I would find no comfort in claiming.


                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Nimbus View Post

                        Yeah. Jesus > Paul > Gentiles

                        I'm in the Gentiles group.

                        The papal lineages are bogus. The years don't add up, there are gaps, there were times of multiple popes.

                        I've read the history, Ram, and these kind of RCC assertions may have worked successfully in ages past when access to information was so limited, but they do not any more.

                        It is an established fact that a large number of papal documents were frauds and forgeries used to expand their authority and power in the world. It is also an established fact that the ECF histories and writings contain contradictions and errors.

                        God told the Jews that He could turn rocks into children of Abraham - and he didn't need Abraham's semen. God can turn my stony heart of rock into a child of God, without the papacy's lineage semen.

                        And another thought, and not meant meanly.

                        The reality is that the RCC, for centuries, sought and destroyed believers who did not bow down to the papal claims of authority. They killed the people and they destroyed their writings. Or they coerced them into submission, and destroyed their writings.

                        For the RCC to harp on the lineage of Christians is like having the people who murdered your tribe attempt to mock you for not having grandparents.

                        And finally, not to put too fine a point on it - I don't *want* to be a part of the RCC lineage you seem so proud of. The history of the papal lineage is a grotesque one that I would find no comfort in claiming.

                        What history and your source?

                        have you tried Eusebius: the church history translated by Paul maeir?

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by ramcam2 View Post

                          thanks. that is very noble and good of your church (sorry, I do not know the name of your church).

                          but, what is the absolute guarantee that what is taught and spread is the divine truth?
                          you throw around terms : and when pressed you don't mean what you said: ( i just saw in another thread: is English a second language for you?)
                          We don't have an absolute guarantee.

                          i answered you question: now you answer mine.

                          When a Bishop, Cardinal, or Priest comes to your area, what is the absolute guarantee that what is taught and spread is the divine truth?
                          Last edited by tester; 03-27-2020, 10:52 AM.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by tester View Post

                            you throw around terms : and when pressed you don't mean what you said:
                            We don't have an absolute guarantee.

                            i answered you question: now you answer mine.

                            When a Bishop, Cardinal, or Priest comes to your area, what is the absolute guarantee that what is taught and spread is the divine truth?
                            We have an infallible living authoirty who decides if what is taught is divine truth or not.

                            what about you?

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by ramcam2 View Post

                              We have an infallible living authoirty who decides if what is taught is divine truth or not.

                              what about you?
                              Is that your anwer to the question

                              "When a Bishop, Cardinal, or Priest comes to your area, what is the absolute guarantee that what is taught and spread is the divine truth?"

                              How do you reconcile the endless news stories of conflicting teachings between Bishops, Cardinals, and Priests?

                              has your "infallible living authority" not worked it into their schedule to decide who is correct?
                              Originally posted by Romishpopishpapist View Post

                              Look, none of us have ever claimed that being pope makes you a brilliant theologian. Pope Francis is an idiot. But he is still pope. The office of the papacy does not depend on one's intelligence.
                              Last edited by tester; 03-27-2020, 09:57 AM.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by ramcam2 View Post

                                We have an infallible living authoirty who decides if what is taught is divine truth or not.

                                what about you?
                                Can you give some names of those who are part of this "infallible living authority":

                                when I check their understanding of infallible Church doctrines ; there should be an absolute guarantee there will be no contradictions in their teachings:

                                Right?

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