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  • Originally posted by mica View Post
    if you really want to know, you'll research it in scripture and bible study - outside of the RCC teachings.

    I don't think you really want to know the truth.
    are you the authority?

    if not, give us your historical support (writing of the early Christians).

    Comment


    • Originally posted by ramcam2 View Post
      are you the authority?

      if not, give us your historical support (writing of the early Christians).
      read the NT as it is, not according to what the RCC teaches.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by ramcam2 View Post

        Support your novel ideas with how the early Christians understood it.
        I asked YOU to support YOUR opinion. How bout doing that? I asked you to back up your claim. But you never do that do you?
        Rom 5:1
        5 Therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, NASB

        Rom 5:6
        6 For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. NASB

        Rom 5:8
        8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. NASB

        Rom 5:10
        10 For if while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. NASB

        Comment


        • Originally posted by mica View Post
          if you really want to know, you'll research it in scripture and bible study - outside of the RCC teachings.

          I don't think you really want to know the truth.
          Originally posted by ramcam2 View Post
          are you the authority?

          if not, give us your historical support (writing of the early Christians).
          no, which if you read my post above, you'll see that i directed you to God's word and study of His word. He is my authority, as is His word.

          I directed you to it. pay attention to what is written in a post when you read it.scripture is the written history that is given to us by God. that is where you'll find the written history given to us by Jesus and the aposles.

          Comment


          • Balshan
            Balshan commented
            Editing a comment
            Oh the poster cannot support their belief from scripture. It is not there and that is why he needs to go to the 4th Century writers.

        • Originally posted by Nondenom40 View Post
          Where else in the n.t. are people baptized and the heavens opened? Got that one? No, you don't. So all that you just said is your personal opinion, nothing more. Jesus was baptized because He was starting His ministry. The heavens opened so everyone there would know that God Himself recognizes Jesus as His Son authenticating His life and mission.
          Originally posted by ramcam2 View Post

          Support your novel ideas with how the early Christians understood it.
          what novel ideas? do you mean 'non catholic ideas'? His word would be 'novel' to catholics. I've yet to see a 'novel' (unbiblical) idea posted by nondenom and I usually always read posts by nondenom. but, I might have missed a few here and there over the past 5 yrs. any 'novel' (unbiblical) ideas on here are posted by catholics.

          notice that nondenom directs you to the NT - where you'll find info / history on and by believers, new Christians in that time period. have you done that? tried Mr Google for some verses to read? Try reading about how a high priest (in OT) prepared prior to offering a sacrifice. You might see a connection between that and the baptism of Jesus. look up what JTB says about how he would recognize Jesus. He was told he'd be given a sign. What was it?

          The RCC doesn't teach these things, but they are in scripture. God's word is miraculous and an incredible gift given to us by God, woven together as no human could ever possibly do. why do you ignore it? you always turn to the words of men instead of His word. As a believer and follower of Him, I have a great desire for His word. you desire the words of man, the RCC. So who is it you believe in and follow? the RCC men, what they teach and what they write. Not the words of God.
          Last edited by mica; 03-15-2020, 04:22 AM.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by JoeT View Post

            To be Apostolic means the Church is founded on the Church's Living Stones of the Apostles. As a consequence 'a' Church isn't Apostolic, it implies that more than one foundations was laid by the Apostles when in fact the Church is One, Catholic, and Apostolic - as well as holy.

            The Church is apostolic because she is founded on the apostles, in three ways:
            • she was and remains built on "the foundation of the Apostles,"[ Eph 2:20; Rev 21:14] the witnesses chosen and sent on mission by Christ himself; [Cf. Mt 28:16-20; Acts 1:8; 1 Cor 9:1; 15:7-8; Gal 1:1; etc.]
            • with the help of the Spirit dwelling in her, the Church keeps and hands on the teaching, [ Cf. Acts 2:42] the "good deposit," the salutary words
            • she has heard from the apostles; [Cf. 2 Tim 1:13-14] she continues to be taught, sanctified, and guided by the apostles until Christ's return, through their successors in pastoral office: the college of bishops, "assisted by priests, in union with the successor of Peter, the Church's supreme pastor":
            You are the eternal Shepherd
            who never leaves his flock untended.
            Through the apostles
            you watch over us and protect us always.
            You made them shepherds of the flock
            to share in the work of your Son. . . . [Roman Missal] [CCC 857]

            The Church is apostolic. She is built on a lasting foundation: "the twelve apostles of the Lamb" (Rev 21:14). She is indestructible (cf. Mt 16:18). She is upheld infallibly in the truth: Christ governs her through Peter and the other apostles, who are present in their successors, the Pope and the college of bishops. [CCC 869]




            JoeT
            What's this;
            The opinions of Men that Paul said were Reprobates
            or the Students of such; Men

            is it any wonder the RCC'ers that post here have no credibility
            we put no faith in the surmises of such
            Proverbs 22:17
            Bow down thine ear, and hear the words of the wise, and apply thine heart unto my knowledge.

            Not some old men that didn't know the difference between
            the True Apostles and the False ANTI-Christ Apostles
            18 For it is a pleasant thing if thou keep them within thee;
            they shall withal be fitted in thy lips.

            19 That thy trust may be in the Lord,
            I have made known to thee this day, even to thee.

            20 Have not I written to thee excellent things in counsels and knowledge,

            21 That I might make thee know the certainty of the words of truth;
            that thou mightest answer the words of truth to them that send unto thee?


            Here show us as Luke says
            Luke 1:3
            3 It seemed good to me also,
            having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first,
            to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,

            4 That thou mightest know the certainty of those things,
            wherein thou hast been instructed.

            Your CC is the nothing more opinions of deceived men
            that now deceive others,
            worthless; even for Toilet Paper

            But you are correct here

            To be Apostolic means the Church is founded on the Church's Living Stones of the Apostles. As a consequence 'a' Church isn't Apostolic, it implies that more than one foundations was laid by the Apostles when in fact the Church is One, Catholic, and Apostolic - as well as holy.

            The Church is apostolic because she is founded on the apostles, in three ways:

            But it ain't holy;
            we read of the "Holy Fathers" every day in the news

            the wrong ""Apostles"" Joe
            as Paul says

            1Cor.11;13
            For such are false apostles, deceitful workers,
            transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

            14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

            15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also
            be transformed as the ministers of righteousness;

            The RCC is for a fact the
            "Apostolic Succession"

            Comment


            • Originally posted by mica View Post

              no, which if you read my post above, you'll see that i directed you to God's word and study of His word. He is my authority, as is His word.

              I directed you to it. pay attention to what is written in a post when you read it.scripture is the written history that is given to us by God. that is where you'll find the written history given to us by Jesus and the aposles.
              Shows us the history of your Church from the death of the apostles to the present day. If you don't have the history of your Church from the death of the apostles to the present day, then all you have is the history from Adam to the apostles. Now show us the history of your Church from the death of the apostles to the present day as it is recorded in the bible.

              Don't have any history? Not surprised!

              Comment


              • Originally posted by mica View Post
                no, which if you read my post above, you'll see that i directed you to God's word and study of His word. He is my authority, as is His word.

                I directed you to it. pay attention to what is written in a post when you read it. scripture is the written history that is given to us by God. that is where you'll find the written history given to us by Jesus and the apostles
                .
                Originally posted by Only_3 View Post
                Shows us the history of your Church from the death of the apostles to the present day. If you don't have the history of your Church from the death of the apostles to the present day, then all you have is the history from Adam to the apostles. Now show us the history of your Church from the death of the apostles to the present day as it is recorded in the bible.

                Don't have any history? Not surprised!
                from the death of the apostles? where do you come up with that?

                did you ask me that and you didn't like my reply? I don't think so. it looks like my post is a reply to ramcam's post.

                My church history is found with every believer in Him and in the NT. you'll find it at the foot of His cross.



                Last edited by mica; 03-15-2020, 12:16 AM.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by mica View Post

                  from the death of the apostles? where do you come up with that?

                  Well, we can start with the apostle Stenphen.

                  Acts 8
                  And Saul approved of his execution.

                  And there arose on that day a great persecution against the church in Jerusalem, and they were all scattered throughout the regions of Judea and Samaria, except the apostles. 2Devout men buried Stephen and made great lamentation over him. 3But Saul was ravaging the church, and entering house after house, he dragged off men and women and committed them to prison.

                  So now give us the history of your Church from the death of Stephen to the present day.




                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Only_3 View Post
                    Well, we can start with the apostle Stenphen.

                    Acts 8
                    And Saul approved of his execution.

                    And there arose on that day a great persecution against the church in Jerusalem, and they were all scattered throughout the regions of Judea and Samaria, except the apostles. 2Devout men buried Stephen and made great lamentation over him. 3But Saul was ravaging the church, and entering house after house, he dragged off men and women and committed them to prison.

                    So now give us the history of your Church from the death of Stephen to the present day.
                    I gave my answer. that you don't accept or believe it is your problem


                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by mica View Post

                      from the death of the apostles? where do you come up with that?

                      did you ask me that and you didn't like my reply? I don't think so. it looks like my post is a reply to ramcam's post.

                      My church history is found with every believer in Him and in the NT. you'll find it at the foot of His cross.


                      The truth of the matter is nothing can found at the cross. Unless he was raised from the dead, he died in vain. It's all about the resurrection of Jesus Christ, that God raised him from the dead.

                      Romans 9:10
                      "...if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by mica View Post

                        what novel ideas? do you mean 'non catholic ideas'? His word would be 'novel' to catholics. I've yet to see a 'novel' (unbiblical) idea posted by nondenom and I usually always read posts by nondenom. but, I might have missed a few here and there over the past 5 yrs. any 'novel' (unbiblical) ideas on here are posted by catholics.

                        notice that nondenom directs you to the NT - where you'll find info / history on and by believers, new Christians in that time period. have you done that? tried Mr Google for some verses to read? Try reading about how a high priest (in OT) prepared prior to offering a sacrifice. You might see a connection between that and the baptism of Jesus. look up what JTB says about how he would recognize Jesus. He was told he'd be given a sign. What was it?

                        The RCC doesn't teach these things, but they are in scripture. God's word is miraculous and an incredible gift given to us by God, woven together as no human could ever possibly do. why do you ignore it? you always turn to the words of men instead of His word. As a believer and follower of Him, I have a great desire for His word. you desire the words of man, the RCC. So who is it you believe in and follow? the RCC men, what they teach and what they write. Not the words of God.
                        I believe in those verses but it does not mean I agree with your fallible interpretation of those verses.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Calsgal View Post

                          Peter was the apostle Christ sent to the Jews, not gentiles.. There is zero evidence that he was ever in Rome. God chose a Jewish Roman citizen to be the apostle to Rome
                          this is counter to the testimony of the ecfs and the bible.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Only_3 View Post

                            The truth of the matter is nothing can found at the cross. Unless he was raised from the dead, he died in vain. It's all about the resurrection of Jesus Christ, that God raised him from the dead.

                            Romans 9:10
                            "...if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."
                            "The truth of the matter is nothing can found at the cross."
                            it is just amazing the stuff Only_3 spews out

                            the truth of the matter is that forgiveness of sins and propitiation can be found at the Cross (do you also deny that?)
                            The Resurrection proved Jesus' claims about Himself and the promises He made were true including our own future resurrection and our glorification. (The final step in our salvation)
                            Last edited by tester; 03-15-2020, 12:28 PM.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by ramcam2 View Post

                              this is counter to the testimony of the ecfs and the bible.
                              statements
                              1. Peter was the apostle Christ sent to the Jews, not gentiles..
                              2. There is zero evidence that he was ever in Rome.
                              3. God chose a Jewish Roman citizen to be the apostle to Rome

                              response
                              this is counter to the testimony of the ecfs and the bible


                              ramcam2:
                              please provide the Biblical counter points to the above statements that you claim exist
                              please show in the Bible that:
                              1. Peter was NOT the apostle Christ sent to the Jews, but to sent to the gentiles..
                              2. Biblical evidence that Peter was ever in Rome.
                              3. That God did NOT chose a Jewish Roman citizen to be the apostle to Rome
                              you claimed the Bible has testimony to counter Calsgal's statement
                              Please back up your claim
                              Last edited by tester; 03-15-2020, 01:07 PM.

                              Comment

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