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Rod of iron or the Gospel of Christ as the power?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Ruk View Post

    You say Jesus is king of Israel. The nation of Isreal has a president, Reuven Rivlin. At least we agree that the church is Israel. Right? What say you about all those Satanists who say the nation of Israel is God's people? What say about all those Satanists, Dispensationalists, who imply that Jesus isn't yet king?
    The bible says that he is the King of Israel.
    the present political structure is man's making, and according to Romans 13, and Daniel, YHVH is the one who sets up and pulls down kings, the in the present order of things, human politics is God's purposes.
    As for the "church is Israel", are you saying that you believe that the church has replaced Israel in God's economy and Kingdom? Please read Romans 9-11, and Revelation 7, and 14.

    I don't think that Jesus is not King. According to Matthew 28, all authority and power in heaven and on earth was given to him then following his resurrection.

    That does not however mean that the Millennium was begun.
    The millennial Kingdom will begin when Jesus returns, after 45 days of judgment, as stated in Daniel, and Matthew 25's Judgment of the Nations.

    And while I hold dispensational views, I have no idea what you're referring to with satanists, and dispensationalists.

    So, how about dumping the labels and libelous language and explaining what you mean and are trying to figure out.
    It doesn't require your belief to be true. Arguing about it won't make what you want true.
    Jesus said that he is the truth.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by ISteveBMe View Post

      The bible says that he is the King of Israel.
      Yeah, and also the King of Kings which means Israel became both Jews and Gentiles and heirs according to God's promises. Israel isn't just Jews anymore.
      Originally posted by ISteveBMe View Post
      the present political structure is man's making, and according to Romans 13, and Daniel, YHVH is the one who sets up and pulls down kings, the in the present order of things, human politics is God's purposes.
      Right, the nation of Israel in the middle east has no relevance to God's people anymore than Zimbabwe or any other man made nation. And we speak English and YHVH really doesn't impress anyone.
      Originally posted by ISteveBMe View Post
      As for the "church is Israel", are you saying that you believe that the church has replaced Israel in God's economy and Kingdom? Please read Romans 9-11, and Revelation 7, and 14.
      I've read Romans 9 and Romans 2 and Revelation 7 and Ruk or no one else has said the Church replaced Israel. The Church IS Israel. The reason all the first Christians were Jews and came out of the Old Law that had been fulfilled is because that's what the Gospel is, the Power of God to Salvation. Being a Jew of the flesh doesn't save anyone, Jesus saves All who believe and obey Him.

      Dispensationalists made up a term "replacement theology" and then lie and claim that's what the Church teaches and it's not. God didn't replace anyone. He gave Everyone the same gospel whether Jew or Gentile. Galatians explains it perfectly and easy to understand for any novice.
      Originally posted by ISteveBMe View Post
      I don't think that Jesus is not King. According to Matthew 28, all authority and power in heaven and on earth was given to him then following his resurrection.
      When you claim He isn't ruling you deny Him as King.
      Originally posted by ISteveBMe View Post
      That does not however mean that the Millennium was begun.
      Yes it does. It means exactly that. Taking Revelation 20, a very metaphorical and allegorical book, and making it contradict easy to understand Galatians, Matthew, Romans, Hebrews, all the Bible actually, but forcing a couple of verses of Revelation to fit a man made doctrine that absolutely denies Jesus is King of Kings today requires a rejection of the gospel.
      Originally posted by ISteveBMe View Post
      The millennial Kingdom will begin when Jesus returns, after 45 days of judgment, as stated in Daniel, and Matthew 25's Judgment of the Nations.
      No He's returning to raise the dead and judge the world and present His Kingdom to the Father. 1 Corinthians 15,
      Originally posted by ISteveBMe View Post
      And while I hold dispensational views, I have no idea what you're referring to with satanists, and dispensationalists.

      So, how about dumping the labels and libelous language and explaining what you mean and are trying to figure out.
      I'm not sure what Ruk means, but I mean all those who reject Jesus is King of Kings and He's ruling His Kingdom are from satan. All who believe the only way He defeats sin is with a rod of iron are not only from satan, they are not even trying to understand the word of God.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Hemi View Post

        Yeah, and also the King of Kings which means Israel became both Jews and Gentiles and heirs according to God's promises. Israel isn't just Jews anymore.
        [LEFT][COLOR=#000000][FONT=Helvetica]

        Right, the nation of Israel in the middle east has no relevance to God's people anymore than Zimbabwe or any other man made nation. And we speak English and YHVH really doesn't impress anyone.
        [LEFT][COLOR=#000000][FONT=Helvetica]

        I've read Romans 9 and Romans 2 and Revelation 7 and Ruk or no one else has said the Church replaced Israel. The Church IS Israel. The reason all the first Christians were Jews and came out of the Old Law that had been fulfilled is because that's what the Gospel is, the Power of God to Salvation. Being a Jew of the flesh doesn't save anyone, Jesus saves All who believe and obey Him.

        Dispensationalists made up a term "replacement theology" and then lie and claim that's what the Church teaches and it's not. God didn't replace anyone. He gave Everyone the same gospel whether Jew or Gentile. Galatians explains it perfectly and easy to understand for any novice.
        [LEFT][COLOR=#000000][FONT=Helvetica]

        When you claim He isn't ruling you deny Him as King.
        [LEFT][COLOR=#000000][FONT=Helvetica]

        Yes it does. It means exactly that. Taking Revelation 20, a very metaphorical and allegorical book, and making it contradict easy to understand Galatians, Matthew, Romans, Hebrews, all the Bible actually, but forcing a couple of verses of Revelation to fit a man made doctrine that absolutely denies Jesus is King of Kings today requires a rejection of the gospel.
        [LEFT][COLOR=#000000][FONT=Helvetica]

        No He's returning to raise the dead and judge the world and present His Kingdom to the Father. 1 Corinthians 15,
        [LEFT][COLOR=#000000][FONT=Helvetica]

        I'm not sure what Ruk means, but I mean all those who reject Jesus is King of Kings and He's ruling His Kingdom are from satan. All who believe the only way He defeats sin is with a rod of iron are not only from satan, they are not even trying to understand the word of God.
        o.......
        k.......

        Revelation isn't as allegorical as people need it to be.
        Several years ago, back in the 90's actually.... I learned that of the 404 verses in the book of Revelation, there are over 800 allusions to the old testament scriptures.

        Therefore, the only way to understand Revelation, is to learn to understand the hebrew bible, or what christians call the old testament.

        It doesn't require your belief to be true. Arguing about it won't make what you want true.
        Jesus said that he is the truth.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by ISteveBMe View Post

          o.......
          k.......

          Revelation isn't as allegorical as people need it to be.
          I agree. That's why Dispensationalists have to avoid words like "All are one in Christ" and "There is no Jew or Greek" or words like this out of the favorite book Dispensationalists like to use out of context to fit their idol worship of a man made nation...For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
          Originally posted by ISteveBMe View Post
          Several years ago, back in the 90's actually.... I learned that of the 404 verses in the book of Revelation, there are over 800 allusions to the old testament scriptures.
          Well yeah lots of Revelation may very well refer to the Old testament since it's part of the same Bible. The problem is Dispensationalists twist into a book of nonsense to fit their man made doctrines like Jesus is not King yet and when He is He'll use a rod to keep sinners under control EVEN THOUGH His gospel is clear He is not violent and His Gospel is the power of God to salvation to Jew and Gentile!
          Originally posted by ISteveBMe View Post
          Therefore, the only way to understand Revelation, is to learn to understand the hebrew bible, or what christians call the old testament.
          I understand the Old Covenant pretty well and I Know for a fact it was nailed to the cross and it will not save ONE soul and it is not coming back. The Temple if God is here already, His Kingdom is here and God dwells with us. His Gospel is not violent, our weapons are not carnal, and the Keys to His Kingdom are here already. He gave them to the Apostles, and they preached them to the world and we still have those keys and not to the people who reject His only begotten son.

          The Only way to understand Revelation is with a pure heart and not an idol worshipping mindset that requires Galatians and Hebrews and most of Romans to be rejected and ignored. Every time a Dispensationalist posts Romans 9-11 I know where they're coming from and I know they will avoid any reference to who Israel actually is and who a Jew actually is and why Christ and His Gospel makes the Old Covenant null and void and how "All Israel will be saved" is fulfilled by the gospel because all who are Christ's is who Israel is both Jew like Paul who converted and wrote the book of Romans in the first place by inspiration of God. As Paul said also in Romans 9 that Dispensationalists like to skip, when he was explaining how Israel is both Jew and Gentile in Romans 9...Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

          And before you even say it, the root of Jesse is Jesus, NOT the Jews. We are not grafted into a tree they themselves were pruned out of and will be cast into an everlasting fire. We were grafted into the tree that went to the Jews first through Jesus the Root and they, the Jews except for a remnant like Paul, rejected and were cut out from. Gentiles were the wild branches that didn't have the law, but accepted Jesus as He said they would and said He would take the Kingdom from one people and give it to those who accept Him.

          And that's exactly what happened and we see God's promises to Abraham all fulfilled. The land, the nation, and through His seed, Jesus, ALL nations are blessed.









          .

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by ISteveBMe View Post

            The bible says that he is the King of Israel.
            Yes, the Bible says Jesus is king of Israel. That fact, as do all facts, make liars out of Dispensationalists. How can "the present political structure is man's making" called Israel being the true Israel when Jesus is not their king. In fact, so-called Jews hate Jesus, which is why they call themselves Jews, to identify themselves with those who killed Jesus. Your and your Dispensationalists are total liars about who the Jews are.

            As for the "church is Israel", are you saying that you believe that the church has replaced Israel in God's economy and Kingdom? Please read Romans 9-11, and Revelation 7, and 14.
            You should read the Bible.

            So, how about dumping the labels and libelous language and explaining what you mean and are trying to figure out.
            If you don't want to be called a Satanist, stop claiming the children of Satan are God's people, while at the same time denying that Christians are the Israel of God.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Ruk View Post

              Yes, the Bible says Jesus is king of Israel. That fact, as do all facts, make liars out of Dispensationalists. How can "the present political structure is man's making" called Israel being the true Israel when Jesus is not their king. In fact, so-called Jews hate Jesus, which is why they call themselves Jews, to identify themselves with those who killed Jesus. Your and your Dispensationalists are total liars about who the Jews are.



              You should read the Bible.



              If you don't want to be called a Satanist, stop claiming the children of Satan are God's people, while at the same time denying that Christians are the Israel of God.
              Well, you've pretty much made it clear that discussion is not your purpose here.

              And considering that Jesus said that his followers would be compared to the household of the devil, because he was accused of being the devil, I'd say that I'm in good company. Indeed! In great company!

              Mat 10:24-26 WEB 24 “A disciple is not above his teacher, nor a servant above his lord. 25 It is enough for the disciple that he be like his teacher, and the servant like his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebul, how much more those of his household! 26 Therefore don’t be afraid of them, for there is nothing covered that will not be revealed, or hidden that will not be known.

              So, we'll do this succinctly and directly.

              YHVH rebuke you. YHVH who chooses Jerusalem Rebuke you! Zechariah 3:2.

              When you learn to understand the scriptures and live in obedience to the Truth, and not promote fraud and deception, then you will know the truth and the truth will set you free. John 8:26-36.
              It doesn't require your belief to be true. Arguing about it won't make what you want true.
              Jesus said that he is the truth.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by ISteveBMe View Post

                Well, you've pretty much made it clear that discussion is not your purpose here.
                I'm happy to discuss anything. It's the other side that doesn't want to discuss anything. They just want to preach their indefensible lies.

                And considering that Jesus said that his followers would be compared to the household of the devil, because he was accused of being the devil, I'd say that I'm in good company. Indeed! In great company!
                See there, you could have discussed any point I made. Instead, you're trying to immunize yourself from deserved criticism. You preach the children of the Devil (John 8:44) are God's people. You have no defense to what I say.

                Comment


                • #23


                  the nations does not refer to the saved.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by ISteveBMe View Post

                    Well, you've pretty much made it clear that discussion is not your purpose here.
                    Saya the guy who came on here bragging about 42 ears worth of study who denies Jesus is King.
                    Originally posted by ISteveBMe View Post
                    And considering that Jesus said that his followers would be compared to the household of the devil, because he was accused of being the devil, I'd say that I'm in good company. Indeed! In great company!
                    Well aren't you the mistreated victim. Here's an idea, use your 42 years of knowledge and study and put it to good use instead of complaining. Besides, You're the one denying Jesus Is currently reigning as King of Kings like the Pharisees did.

                    Originally posted by ISteveBMe View Post
                    Mat 10:24-26 WEB 24 “A disciple is not above his teacher, nor a servant above his lord. 25 It is enough for the disciple that he be like his teacher, and the servant like his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebul, how much more those of his household! 26 Therefore don’t be afraid of them, for there is nothing covered that will not be revealed, or hidden that will not be known.
                    LOL! Oh that's rich. Comparing yourself to the Apostles when you openly deny Peter told the Truth in Acts 2 16-36 where he plainly tells us Jesus is Lord and Christ on His throne just as David had prophesied and God had promised.
                    Originally posted by ISteveBMe View Post
                    So, we'll do this succinctly and directly.

                    YHVH rebuke you. YHVH who chooses Jerusalem Rebuke you! Zechariah 3:2.
                    Oh I love it when people reject the Holy Spirit using ALL languages in all the world to spread the gospel and pretend they speak Hebrew and don't need vowels. The scriptures have rebuked you already buddy. When Paul tells us in Ephesians 1 how God has made Christ head over all things, all principalities and powers, you freely admit you don't believe it because you're waiting on a violent Jesus to force obedience with a rod of iron for a thousand years. And that itself being plucked out of a verse in Revelation 20 where no dispensationalists wants to finish the chapter or the last one.

                    But if dispensationalists didn't do that and distort the rest of the scriptures the same way their idol worship of the carnal unbelieving nation of Israel in the middle east wouldn't persuade the gullible and weak to believe their nonsense. Here's a clue. Jesus rebuked the unbelieving Jews Himself. He told them "Unless you believe I am He, you will die in your sins". Yet here we are today, two thousand years after Jesus fulfilled the Old Law having to rebuke antichrists' who look to a man made nation state rather than Jesus the King of Kings as the only path to eternal salvation and all desiring a man made temple where God does not and will not dwell.
                    Originally posted by ISteveBMe View Post
                    When you learn to understand the scriptures and live in obedience to the Truth, and not promote fraud and deception, then you will know the truth and the truth will set you free. John 8:26-36.
                    LOL! Again, that's just funny. YOU telling someone else to learn the scriptures.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Ruk View Post

                      I'm happy to discuss anything. It's the other side that doesn't want to discuss anything. They just want to preach their indefensible lies.



                      See there, you could have discussed any point I made. Instead, you're trying to immunize yourself from deserved criticism. You preach the children of the Devil (John 8:44) are God's people. You have no defense to what I say.
                      I learned a long time ago when someone tells me how many years or decades they have studied the scriptures, especially prophesy, their braggart attitude is about all they have to offer.

                      David Reagan, John Hagee, and especially Jack Van Impe, those guys love to pound their chests and tell us how smart they are. And their hypnotized and mesmerized audiences don't know the difference. And when they're challenged with the Bible, they will pluck out a verse and claim victimhood.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        "A rod of iron" means "a strict, stern rule", and has meant such for millenia, when not referring to a literal re-bar, etc. Jesus will present the rules & enforce them with His power. He won't need to do anything but say it, & it'll be so.

                        Remember, in His parable, He portrays Himself as a nobleman going on a journey to receive His kingdom. He's still on that journey, & He won't return as King til His Father's appointed time.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by robycop3 View Post
                          "A rod of iron" means "a strict, stern rule", and has meant such for millenia, when not referring to a literal re-bar, etc. Jesus will present the rules & enforce them with His power. He won't need to do anything but say it, & it'll be so.
                          So you don't take it literally after all.

                          Jesus is ruling just as you said He would. That's His word, a strict stern obedience to Him is required through His word, the Keys to the Kingdom. Anyone pretending is tares and all who are genuine are the wheat. He said when He comes He will separate the wheat from the tares.

                          Originally posted by robycop3 View Post
                          Remember, in His parable, He portrays Himself as a nobleman going on a journey to receive His kingdom. He's still on that journey, & He won't return as King til His Father's appointed time.
                          His Father has already appointed Him King His far away journey was to men, now He's back on His throne. He will return to gather His Kingdom and present us to the Father.

                          There are many parables, such as the parable of the talents, the parable of the sower, the parable of the wheat and tares. There are parables of how this Kingdom is to live, such as the parable of growth as a mustard seed, And telling us to seek first the Kingdom of God and He will provide us what we need. He tells us the gates to enter are narrow and straight. If they can't be entered as you say until He returns then that message from Him was for nothing.

                          As Colossians says, we as Christians were put into the Kingdom. Whoever doesn't believe His Kingdom is here have not been put into the Kingdom and their souls are lost until they turn to God and repent and do His will





                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by robycop3 View Post
                            "A rod of iron" means "a strict, stern rule", and has meant such for millenia, when not referring to a literal re-bar, etc. Jesus will present the rules & enforce them with His power. He won't need to do anything but say it, & it'll be so.

                            Your false god is a despot (John 8:44, you yourself declare their god is your god). The rod of my God comforts me (Ps. 23:4).

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Ruk View Post


                              Your false god is a despot (John 8:44, you yourself declare their god is your god). The rod of my God comforts me (Ps. 23:4).
                              MY God is in Scripture as he gave it; yours is in Scripture as twisted by you & other men.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by robycop3 View Post

                                MY God is in Scripture as he gave it; yours is in Scripture as twisted by you & other men.
                                No, your projection and twisting and claiming you take Revelation as a literal writing yet proceed to tell me a rod of iron doesn't mean a rod of iron, or represent violence, just stern instruction and law.

                                Show me the scripture to support that.

                                Comment

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