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  • Molech

    The Israelites were often tempted to worship the gods of the Canaanites and the surrounding nations. One of those gods was called Molech or Moloch. He required that his worshipers sacrifice their children to him. Here is what Wikipedia says about him.

    Rabbinical tradition depicted Moloch as a bronze statue heated with fire into which the victims were thrown. This has been associated with reports by Greco-Roman authors on the child sacrifices in Carthage to Baal Hammon, especially since archaeological excavations since the 1920s have produced evidence for child sacrifice in Carthage as well as inscriptions including the term MLK, either a theonym or a technical term associated with sacrifice. In interpretatio graeca, the Phoenician god was identified with Cronus, due to the parallel mytheme of Cronus devouring his children.

    It seems inconceivable that anyone would be willing to kill their own children. Perhaps it makes more sense when we understand the power behind idolatry.

    What do I imply then? That food offered to idols is anything, or that an idol is anything? No, I imply that what pagans sacrifice they offer to demons and not to God.
    1 Corinthians 10:19-20 ESV

    The idols that people once worshiped were not simply statues. They were empowered by demons and those who worshiped them placed themselves under the power of those demons. The power of Molech overrode the natural instincts of parents to care for their children and led them to sacrifice them to their god.

    Today no one sacrifices his children to a statue of Molech but the spirit of Molech is very active in the world. Many people consider it acceptable to sacrifice their children as long as they do so while the child is still in its mother’s womb. Proponents of abortion defend the practice with a zeal that seems almost religious. Most Christians know that those who have abortions are violating the sixth commandment, “You shall not murder,” but how many of them realize that they are also violating the first commandment, “You shall have no other gods before me”?

    Of course abortionists don’t call abortion a sacrifice. Instead, they say it is a mother exercising her right to control her own body. There are two things wrong with this belief. They are actually destroying a child whom they have a God given responsibility to protect, train, and nurture. And their bodies do not belong to them but to the God who created them.

    Here is God’s command regarding those who sacrifice their children to Molech.

    The LORD spoke to Moses, saying, “Say to the people of Israel, Any one of the people of Israel or of the strangers who sojourn in Israel who gives any of his children to Molech shall surely be put to death. The people of the land shall stone him with stones. I myself will set my face against that man and will cut him off from among his people, because he has given one of his children to Molech, to make my sanctuary unclean and to profane my holy name.”
    Leviticus 20:1-3 ESV

    Surely he feels the same way about today’s worshipers of Molech. Of course the church is not a nation, as Israel was, so we have no authority to use force to end abortions, but we should do what we can to get our nations to outlaw abortion, and we should do all was can to show others how evil it is.

    Have you ever heard anyone say something like this, “I am personally opposed to abortion but I don’t feel that I have any right to impose my beliefs on others”? God has something to say to these people.

    And if the people of the land do at all close their eyes to that man when he gives one of his children to Molech, and do not put him to death, then I will set my face against that man and against his clan and will cut them off from among their people, him and all who follow him in whoring after Molech.
    Leviticus 20:4-5 ESV

    There can be no neutrality on the issue of abortion. Either you are opposing it or you are supporting it, either actively or passively.
    God wants full custody of is children, not just visits on Sunday.

  • #2
    Originally posted by theophilus View Post
    The Israelites were often tempted to worship the gods of the Canaanites and the surrounding nations. One of those gods was called Molech or Moloch. He required that his worshipers sacrifice their children to him. Here is what Wikipedia says about him.

    Rabbinical tradition depicted Moloch as a bronze statue heated with fire into which the victims were thrown. This has been associated with reports by Greco-Roman authors on the child sacrifices in Carthage to Baal Hammon, especially since archaeological excavations since the 1920s have produced evidence for child sacrifice in Carthage as well as inscriptions including the term MLK, either a theonym or a technical term associated with sacrifice. In interpretatio graeca, the Phoenician god was identified with Cronus, due to the parallel mytheme of Cronus devouring his children.

    It seems inconceivable that anyone would be willing to kill their own children. Perhaps it makes more sense when we understand the power behind idolatry.

    What do I imply then? That food offered to idols is anything, or that an idol is anything? No, I imply that what pagans sacrifice they offer to demons and not to God.
    1 Corinthians 10:19-20 ESV

    The idols that people once worshiped were not simply statues. They were empowered by demons and those who worshiped them placed themselves under the power of those demons. The power of Molech overrode the natural instincts of parents to care for their children and led them to sacrifice them to their god.

    Today no one sacrifices his children to a statue of Molech but the spirit of Molech is very active in the world. Many people consider it acceptable to sacrifice their children as long as they do so while the child is still in its mother’s womb. Proponents of abortion defend the practice with a zeal that seems almost religious. Most Christians know that those who have abortions are violating the sixth commandment, “You shall not murder,” but how many of them realize that they are also violating the first commandment, “You shall have no other gods before me”?

    Of course abortionists don’t call abortion a sacrifice. Instead, they say it is a mother exercising her right to control her own body. There are two things wrong with this belief. They are actually destroying a child whom they have a God given responsibility to protect, train, and nurture. And their bodies do not belong to them but to the God who created them.

    Here is God’s command regarding those who sacrifice their children to Molech.

    The LORD spoke to Moses, saying, “Say to the people of Israel, Any one of the people of Israel or of the strangers who sojourn in Israel who gives any of his children to Molech shall surely be put to death. The people of the land shall stone him with stones. I myself will set my face against that man and will cut him off from among his people, because he has given one of his children to Molech, to make my sanctuary unclean and to profane my holy name.”
    Leviticus 20:1-3 ESV

    Surely he feels the same way about today’s worshipers of Molech. Of course the church is not a nation, as Israel was, so we have no authority to use force to end abortions, but we should do what we can to get our nations to outlaw abortion, and we should do all was can to show others how evil it is.

    Have you ever heard anyone say something like this, “I am personally opposed to abortion but I don’t feel that I have any right to impose my beliefs on others”? God has something to say to these people.

    And if the people of the land do at all close their eyes to that man when he gives one of his children to Molech, and do not put him to death, then I will set my face against that man and against his clan and will cut them off from among their people, him and all who follow him in whoring after Molech.
    Leviticus 20:4-5 ESV

    There can be no neutrality on the issue of abortion. Either you are opposing it or you are supporting it, either actively or passively.
    Is that why Abraham was commanded to kill his son as a blood sacrifice (Gen 22:1-14) and why first born sons and calves and goats are commanded to be killed as blood sacrifices (Ex 22:29-30 13:1-2) and why genocide is commanded (Deut 7:16)?

    And either way the bible still commands the termination of pregnancies of adulteresses (Lev 20:10 Numbers 5:20-28 Matt 5:17-19).
    Last edited by J regia; 02-20-2020, 08:38 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Abortion has nothing to do with Moloch worship. The worship of Moloch required born humans not unborn ones furthermore even though abortion was endemic in nations surrounding Israel, the Bible never mentions it once.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by kiwimac View Post
        Abortion has nothing to do with Moloch worship. The worship of Moloch required born humans not unborn ones furthermore even though abortion was endemic in nations surrounding Israel, the Bible never mentions it once.
        Both abortion and the worship of Molech involved parents sacrificing their children. The only difference is the age of the children involved.
        God wants full custody of is children, not just visits on Sunday.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by theophilus View Post

          Both abortion and the worship of Molech involved parents sacrificing their children. The only difference is the age of the children involved.
          If you can't distinguish between a child and an embryo or fetus, here is a hint: umbilical cord.


          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by theophilus View Post

            Both abortion and the worship of Molech involved parents sacrificing their children. The only difference is the age of the children involved.
            Rot and nonsense.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by HRG View Post

              If you can't distinguish between a child and an embryo or fetus, here is a hint: umbilical cord.

              A child is a fetus that is able to live outside its mother's womb. There is no difference regarding their humanity and the penalty for murdering them.
              God wants full custody of is children, not just visits on Sunday.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by theophilus View Post
                The Israelites were often tempted to worship the gods of the Canaanites and the surrounding nations. One of those gods was called Molech or Moloch. He required that his worshipers sacrifice their children to him. Here is what Wikipedia says about him.

                Rabbinical tradition depicted Moloch as a bronze statue heated with fire into which the victims were thrown. This has been associated with reports by Greco-Roman authors on the child sacrifices in Carthage to Baal Hammon, especially since archaeological excavations since the 1920s have produced evidence for child sacrifice in Carthage as well as inscriptions including the term MLK, either a theonym or a technical term associated with sacrifice. In interpretatio graeca, the Phoenician god was identified with Cronus, due to the parallel mytheme of Cronus devouring his children.

                It seems inconceivable that anyone would be willing to kill their own children. Perhaps it makes more sense when we understand the power behind idolatry.

                What do I imply then? That food offered to idols is anything, or that an idol is anything? No, I imply that what pagans sacrifice they offer to demons and not to God.
                1 Corinthians 10:19-20 ESV

                The idols that people once worshiped were not simply statues. They were empowered by demons and those who worshiped them placed themselves under the power of those demons. The power of Molech overrode the natural instincts of parents to care for their children and led them to sacrifice them to their god.

                Today no one sacrifices his children to a statue of Molech but the spirit of Molech is very active in the world. Many people consider it acceptable to sacrifice their children as long as they do so while the child is still in its mother’s womb. Proponents of abortion defend the practice with a zeal that seems almost religious. Most Christians know that those who have abortions are violating the sixth commandment, “You shall not murder,” but how many of them realize that they are also violating the first commandment, “You shall have no other gods before me”?

                Of course abortionists don’t call abortion a sacrifice. Instead, they say it is a mother exercising her right to control her own body. There are two things wrong with this belief. They are actually destroying a child whom they have a God given responsibility to protect, train, and nurture. And their bodies do not belong to them but to the God who created them.

                Here is God’s command regarding those who sacrifice their children to Molech.

                The LORD spoke to Moses, saying, “Say to the people of Israel, Any one of the people of Israel or of the strangers who sojourn in Israel who gives any of his children to Molech shall surely be put to death. The people of the land shall stone him with stones. I myself will set my face against that man and will cut him off from among his people, because he has given one of his children to Molech, to make my sanctuary unclean and to profane my holy name.”
                Leviticus 20:1-3 ESV

                Surely he feels the same way about today’s worshipers of Molech. Of course the church is not a nation, as Israel was, so we have no authority to use force to end abortions, but we should do what we can to get our nations to outlaw abortion, and we should do all was can to show others how evil it is.

                Have you ever heard anyone say something like this, “I am personally opposed to abortion but I don’t feel that I have any right to impose my beliefs on others”? God has something to say to these people.

                And if the people of the land do at all close their eyes to that man when he gives one of his children to Molech, and do not put him to death, then I will set my face against that man and against his clan and will cut them off from among their people, him and all who follow him in whoring after Molech.
                Leviticus 20:4-5 ESV

                There can be no neutrality on the issue of abortion. Either you are opposing it or you are supporting it, either actively or passively.
                Some points.

                1 while the Old Testament mentions Moloch there is no mention of a god named Moloch outside of the Bible or among any of the other nations of the Ancient Near East.

                2. Your post is from a religious viewpoint, yet the bible never condemns abortion.

                3 lev 20 1-5 , the verses use the term "give", as quoted in your post, so it is not at all clear if god is anti child sacrifice, or he, god, is jealous they they are worshiping another god. As he is in other places in the bible.



                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Darklady View Post

                  Some points.

                  1 while the Old Testament mentions Moloch there is no mention of a god named Moloch outside of the Bible or among any of the other nations of the Ancient Near East.
                  The fact that we can't find him mentioned doesn't prove he wasn't worshiped.

                  2. Your post is from a religious viewpoint, yet the bible never condemns abortion.
                  The Bible prohibits murder and abortion is the murder of an unborn child.

                  3 lev 20 1-5 , the verses use the term "give", as quoted in your post, so it is not at all clear if god is anti child sacrifice, or he, god, is jealous they they are worshiping another god. As he is in other places in the bible.
                  Both are correct.





                  God wants full custody of is children, not just visits on Sunday.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by theophilus View Post
                    The Bible prohibits murder and abortion is the murder of an unborn child.
                    You have no support for the second half of that sentence. Not even in the bible.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by theophilus View Post
                      The Bible prohibits murder and abortion is the murder of an unborn child.
                      So why does the bible command the termination of pregnancies of adulteresses (Numbers 5:20-28)?

                      And why does the bible command the murder of disobedient children?

                      And why does the bible command genocide (Deut 7:16) including butchering children and the unborn?

                      Or is biblical morality just man made, given it wasn't morally wrong for Abraham to kill his son as a blood sacrifice or for Cain(an) to kill his brother Abel, since the ten commandments etc didn't apply to them?
                      Last edited by J regia; 02-23-2020, 05:41 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by theophilus View Post
                        The fact that we can't find him mentioned doesn't prove he wasn't worshiped.


                        The Bible prohibits murder and abortion is the murder of an unborn child.


                        Both are correct.



                        The fact Molech isn’t mentioned apart from the bible means that your case is purely religious, not historical or factual. Which is fine, it just needs to be recognised as such.

                        Murder is a legal term, abortion is not murder.
                        that the bible does not condemn abortion is a very strong point, especially as it does in a lot,of verses refer to unborn children, and the death of unborn children.

                        Both may be correct, but my point was that the bible is ambiguous and can be interpreted by the readers to input what they want into verses. Those verses do not mention abortion or the unborn, therefore you are adding that to the meaning.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by theophilus View Post
                          The fact that we can't find him mentioned doesn't prove he wasn't worshiped.
                          People tend to mention the gods they worship.
                          "Molech" is a anglicized mistranslation of the semitic Mlk meaning "king".
                          It comes from the ignorance of the men who created the King James bible. Men who knew nothing of semitic languages.
                          These men thought the semitic term for a king, was the name of a demon worshiped by the people of ancient Palestine.

                          The Bible prohibits murder and abortion is the murder of an unborn child.
                          The bible condones murder, and abortion is not murder.
                          The body naturally flushes out most pregnancies, with zero effort from the mother.
                          These spontaneous abortions often happen before the mother even realizes she is pregnant.
                          And then there is therapeutic abortion. where a woman seeks medical assistance in terminating a pregnancy. Most often because the pregnancy threatens the mother's health.












                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by J regia View Post
                            Is that why Abraham was commanded to kill his son as a blood sacrifice (Gen 22:1-14) and why first born sons and calves and goats are commanded to be killed as blood sacrifices (Ex 22:29-30 13:1-2) and why genocide is commanded (Deut 7:16)?

                            And either way the bible still commands the termination of pregnancies of adulteresses (Lev 20:10 Numbers 5:20-28 Matt 5:17-19).
                            What does that have to do with deadly child sacrifice?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Mr Laurier View Post
                              People tend to mention the gods they worship.
                              "Molech" is a anglicized mistranslation of the semitic Mlk meaning "king".
                              It comes from the ignorance of the men who created the King James bible. Men who knew nothing of semitic languages.
                              These men thought the semitic term for a king, was the name of a demon worshiped by the people of ancient Palestine.


                              The bible condones murder, and abortion is not murder.
                              The body naturally flushes out most pregnancies, with zero effort from the mother.
                              These spontaneous abortions often happen before the mother even realizes she is pregnant.
                              And then there is therapeutic abortion. where a woman seeks medical assistance in terminating a pregnancy. Most often because the pregnancy threatens the mother's health.

                              Your reference to"spontaneous abortion" is your way of displaying no medical education.

                              Prodeathers dishonestly equate miscarriage with abortions.

                              The Bible calls murder sin. Sinners lie about the Bible.


                              Why do you enjoy making error claims?

                              Abortion is popular with sinners that fornicate and get pregnant out of wedlock.

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