Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

London Baptist confession Chapter 9

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • London Baptist confession Chapter 9

    Chapter 9: Of Free Will

    1._____ God hath endued the will of man with that natural liberty and power of acting upon choice, that it is neither forced, nor by any necessity of nature determined to do good or evil.
    ( Matthew 17:12; James 1:14; Deuteronomy 30:19 )

    2._____ Man, in his state of innocency, had freedom and power to will and to do that which was good and well-pleasing to God, but yet was unstable, so that he might fall from it.
    ( Ecclesiastes 7:29; Genesis 3:6 )

    3._____ Man, by his fall into a state of sin, hath wholly lost all ability of will to any spiritual good accompanying salvation; so as a natural man, being altogether averse from that good, and dead in sin, is not able by his own strength to convert himself, or to prepare himself thereunto.
    ( Romans 5:6; Romans 8:7; Ephesians 2:1, 5; Titus 3:3-5; John 6:44 )

    4._____ When God converts a sinner, and translates him into the state of grace, he freeth him from his natural bondage under sin, and by his grace alone enables him freely to will and to do that which is spiritually good; yet so as that by reason of his remaining corruptions, he doth not perfectly, nor only will, that which is good, but doth also will that which is evil.
    ( Colossians 1:13; John 8:36; Philippians 2:13; Romans 7:15, 18, 19, 21, 23 )

    5._____ This will of man is made perfectly and immutably free to good alone in the state of glory only.
    ( Ephesians 4:13 )

    Compare to

    CHAPTER IX. — Of Free Will.

    I. God hath endued the will of man with that natural liberty, that is neither forced, nor by any absolute necessity of nature determined to good or evil.
    II. Man, in his state of innocency, had freedom and power to will and to do that which is good and well-pleasing to God; but yet mutably, so that he might fall from it.
    III. Man, by his fall into a state of sin, hath wholly lost all ability of will to any spiritual good accompanying salvation; so as a natural man, being altogether averse from that good, and dead in sin, is not able, by his own strength, to convert himself, or to prepare himself thereunto.
    IV. When God converts a sinner and translates him into the state of grace, he freeth him from his natural bondage under sin, and, by his grace alone, enables him freely to will and to do that which is spiritually good; yet so as that, by reason of his remaining corruption, he doth not perfectly, nor only, will that which is good, but doth also will that which is evil.
    V. The will of man is made perfectly and immutable free to good alone, in the state of glory only.


    Westminster Confession of Faith (1646).

    They read the same
    Last edited by TomL; 01-20-2020, 11:57 AM.

  • #2
    Worth repeating


    3._____ Man, by his fall into a state of sin, hath wholly lost all ability of will to any spiritual good accompanying salvation; so as a natural man, being altogether averse from that good, and dead in sin, is not able by his own strength to convert himself, or to prepare himself thereunto.
    ( Romans 5:6; Romans 8:7; Ephesians 2:1, 5; Titus 3:3-5; John 6:44 )

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Calsgal View Post
      Worth repeating


      3._____ Man, by his fall into a state of sin, hath wholly lost all ability of will to any spiritual good accompanying salvation; so as a natural man, being altogether averse from that good, and dead in sin, is not able by his own strength to convert himself, or to prepare himself thereunto.
      ( Romans 5:6; Romans 8:7; Ephesians 2:1, 5; Titus 3:3-5; John 6:44 )
      But a man never loses his ability to say "yes" to Jesus, so that his faith can be counted as righteousness.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by sethproton View Post

        But a man never loses his ability to say "yes" to Jesus, so that his faith can be counted as righteousness.
        Because where Sin abounds for the Saint, Grace abounds the more...
        I'm an Evangelical Reformed Independent Fundamental Baptist; a mini theologian, an ABC 123 elementary kind of Christian...

        New-Protestantism...

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by sethproton View Post

          But a man never loses his ability to say "yes" to Jesus, so that his faith can be counted as righteousness.
          Scripture please

          You assume man generated faith

          Comment


          • forgiven2020
            forgiven2020 commented
            Editing a comment
            how do YOU know the difference between man generated faith and God given faith? if man is being drawn By God the faith is there . faith comes by hearing the word of God. .for the life of me why do folks complicate salvation ?

        • #6
          Originally posted by Calsgal View Post

          Scripture please

          You assume man generated faith
          I assume that Greek words mean what a lexicon says they mean.
          Only Calvinists have the concept that man generates faith, nobody actually believes that.

          Comment


          • #7
            Originally posted by sethproton View Post
            But a man never loses his ability to say "yes" to Jesus, so that his faith can be counted as righteousness.
            You keep making absurd claims, and NEVER seem to be able to support them from the BIBLE.

            Where does the Bible say, "a man never loses his ability to say "yes" to Jesus"?

            Hint:
            It's not in John 6:44...
            It's not in Rom. 8:7-8....
            It's not in 1 Cor. 2:14...
            It's not in John 8:34...
            It's not in Rom. 6:16-22...
            It's not in Eph. 2:1...
            It's not in Col. 2:13...

            Comment


            • #8
              Originally posted by sethproton View Post

              I assume that Greek words mean what a lexicon says they mean.
              And that's why you should never presume to speak about "the Greek", since you have no clue what you're talking about.

              The meaning of Greek words comes from SYNTAX and CONTEXT, not from (unnamed) "lexicons".
              Lexicons only give a broad general understanding, or a collection of different meanings.
              And you don't get to "choose" which meaning you "like".

              This is why "lexicons" is NO substitute for actually learning the language.

              Only Calvinists have the concept that man generates faith, nobody actually believes that.
              Calvinists don't believe "man generates faith".
              Calvinists believe the Bible, which teaches that GOD gives men faith (Eph. 2:8, Phil. 1:29, Rom. 12:3, 2 Pet. 1:1, 1 Cor. 4:7), which is why men are UNABLE to believe (John 6:44, Rom. 8:7-8, 1 Cor. 2:14, etc.) if God doesn't give them faith.

              Comment


              • #9
                Originally posted by Theo1689 View Post

                You keep making absurd claims, and NEVER seem to be able to support them from the BIBLE.

                Where does the Bible say, "a man never loses his ability to say "yes" to Jesus"?

                Hint:
                It's not in John 6:44...
                It's not in Rom. 8:7-8....
                It's not in 1 Cor. 2:14...
                It's not in John 8:34...
                It's not in Rom. 6:16-22...
                It's not in Eph. 2:1...
                It's not in Col. 2:13...
                I think you would make the argument yourself that if all I showed you were scriptures where something did NOT appear, you would not consider it a valid argument.
                You already know the use of the Greek word exousia in 1 Cor 7;37 but has authority over his own will,

                Comment


                • #10
                  Originally posted by Theo1689 View Post
                  Calvinists don't believe "man generates faith".
                  Yes, we all know that. But you claim other people believe it, who also don't believe it.

                  Comment


                  • #11
                    Originally posted by Calsgal View Post
                    Worth repeating


                    3._____ Man, by his fall into a state of sin, hath wholly lost all ability of will to any spiritual good accompanying salvation; so as a natural man, being altogether averse from that good, and dead in sin, is not able by his own strength to convert himself, or to prepare himself thereunto.
                    ( Romans 5:6; Romans 8:7; Ephesians 2:1, 5; Titus 3:3-5; John 6:44 )
                    No one believes man can convert himself by his own strength. That is a strawman.

                    However I was hoping to see comments addressing

                    1._____ God hath endued the will of man with that natural liberty and power of acting upon choice, that it is neither forced, nor by any necessity of nature determined to do good or evil.
                    ( Matthew 17:12; James 1:14; Deuteronomy 30:19 )

                    2._____ Man, in his state of innocency, had freedom and power to will and to do that which was good and well-pleasing to God, but yet was unstable, so that he might fall from it.
                    ( Ecclesiastes 7:29; Genesis 3:6 )

                    and its apparent support for libertarian free will

                    regarding number 3 however where do we read Adam and his progeny because of that first sin lost all ability to respond to God

                    Comment


                    • #12
                      Originally posted by sethproton View Post

                      But a man never loses his ability to say "yes" to Jesus, so that his faith can be counted as righteousness.
                      Read that one more time.. remembering context counts
                      Last edited by Calsgal; 01-14-2020, 10:07 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #13
                        Originally posted by sethproton View Post

                        I assume that Greek words mean what a lexicon says they mean.
                        Only Calvinists have the concept that man generates faith, nobody actually believes that.
                        So faith is not a spiritual gift?

                        Comment


                        • #14
                          Originally posted by TomL View Post

                          No one believes man can convert himself by his own strength. That is a strawman.

                          However I was hoping to see comments addressing

                          1._____ God hath endued the will of man with that natural liberty and power of acting upon choice, that it is neither forced, nor by any necessity of nature determined to do good or evil.
                          ( Matthew 17:12; James 1:14; Deuteronomy 30:19 )

                          2._____ Man, in his state of innocency, had freedom and power to will and to do that which was good and well-pleasing to God, but yet was unstable, so that he might fall from it.
                          ( Ecclesiastes 7:29; Genesis 3:6 )

                          and its apparent support for libertarian free will

                          regarding number 3 however where do we read Adam and his progeny because of that first sin lost all ability to respond to God
                          ...Did they?



                          Comment


                          • #15
                            Originally posted by Calsgal View Post

                            ...Did they?


                            Did they what ?

                            Adam and Eve - Libertarian free will ?

                            yes

                            Comment

                            Working...
                            X