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  • Originally posted by Open Heart View Post

    Sure, but all I needed was one to make my point.

    Just for kicks, here is another.

    Matthew 2:23 this “fulfilled what was said through the prophets: ‘He will be called a Nazarene.’” None of the prophets ever said this! Matthew invented it out of whole cloth.
    Well.,....... I did some research on this scripture and there are a couple of lengthy explanations for why Matthew said it. Anyone can Google and get the answers the way I did.

    Bottom line for me is that I believe Yeshua is the Messiah... that he has existed for eternity, he is the Son of God and will return (probably very soon) and rule from this planet.

    I believe what Yeshua said in John 10.....
    My sheep​​sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. I and the Father are one.”

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Rachel Redux View Post

      Well.,....... I did some research on this scripture and there are a couple of lengthy explanations for why Matthew said it. Anyone can Google and get the answers the way I did.

      Bottom line for me is that I believe Yeshua is the Messiah... that he has existed for eternity, he is the Son of God and will return (probably very soon) and rule from this planet.

      I believe what Yeshua said in John 10.....
      My sheep​​sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. I and the Father are one.”
      I understand. I realize that I am made out of different material. I am moved by arguments and evidence. If someone can show me that I'm mistaken, I will admit that I'm mistaken, and change. Most people are not like that. They become convinced of something, usually for reasons that they are entirely unconscious of, and get stuck on it. Their bias filters everything they hear and see, so that their opinion simply becomes more and more confirmed, regardless of the truth. Case in point, I just gave you two solid pieces of evidence that your gospels fraudulently invented prophecies that didn't exist in the real Tanakh. Yet this didn't phase you in the slightest. But like I said, I didn't expect it to, because I know human nature.

      For me, when someone showed me those two fabrications, it made me doubt whether I could trust anything the gospels said. It was obvious that they were unreliable.
      When all is said and done, one thing remains: Fear God and keep His commandments, for this is the whole of man.
      Ecclesiastes 12:13

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Open Heart View Post

        I understand. I realize that I am made out of different material. I am moved by arguments and evidence. If someone can show me that I'm mistaken, I will admit that I'm mistaken, and change. Most people are not like that. They become convinced of something, usually for reasons that they are entirely unconscious of, and get stuck on it. Their bias filters everything they hear and see, so that their opinion simply becomes more and more confirmed, regardless of the truth. Case in point, I just gave you two solid pieces of evidence that your gospels fraudulently invented prophecies that didn't exist in the real Tanakh. Yet this didn't phase you in the slightest. But like I said, I didn't expect it to, because I know human nature.

        For me, when someone showed me those two fabrications, it made me doubt whether I could trust anything the gospels said. It was obvious that they were unreliable.
        I'm not sure that the Matthew scripture is a fabrication. I think it's probably misconstrued.
        But you're right...we are different. I tend to be analytical too, but I know what I know.... Yeshua is the Messiah. I am a believer.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Rachel Redux View Post

          I'm not sure that the Matthew scripture is a fabrication. I think it's probably misconstrued.
          All you have to do is provide the book, chapter and verse.
          When all is said and done, one thing remains: Fear God and keep His commandments, for this is the whole of man.
          Ecclesiastes 12:13

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Open Heart View Post
            All you have to do is provide the book, chapter and verse.
            Sometimes you can't provide a single verse, you have to apply line upon line, precept upon precept.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Rachel Redux View Post

              Sometimes you can't provide a single verse, you have to apply line upon line, precept upon precept.
              Em, no, you have to provide where it says it. It's supposedly QUOTING. You have to provide the reference that is being quoted. True sometimes it spans from one verse to the next, but it will be sequential.
              When all is said and done, one thing remains: Fear God and keep His commandments, for this is the whole of man.
              Ecclesiastes 12:13

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Open Heart View Post

                Em, no, you have to provide where it says it. It's supposedly QUOTING. You have to provide the reference that is being quoted. True sometimes it spans from one verse to the next, but it will be sequential.
                Em.... are we back in Junior High???

                The lack of clear explanation of Matthew 2:23 doesn't make it a lie. If that's all it took to derail you, you didn't love him to begin with.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Rachel Redux View Post
                  Em.... are we back in Junior High???

                  The lack of clear explanation of Matthew 2:23 doesn't make it a lie. If that's all it took to derail you, you didn't love him to begin with.
                  If it's a quote that does not exist, that makes it a lie, which makes the gospels unreliable.
                  When all is said and done, one thing remains: Fear God and keep His commandments, for this is the whole of man.
                  Ecclesiastes 12:13

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Open Heart View Post

                    If it's a quote that does not exist, that makes it a lie, which makes the gospels unreliable.
                    He doesn't say it's a quote....he says that it was "spoken through the prophets, that `A Nazarene he shall be called.'"

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Rachel Redux View Post

                      He doesn't say it's a quote....he says that it was "spoken through the prophets, that `A Nazarene he shall be called.'"
                      You have added the word, "that." No such word exists in the Greek. It is a QUOTE.
                      When all is said and done, one thing remains: Fear God and keep His commandments, for this is the whole of man.
                      Ecclesiastes 12:13

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Open Heart View Post

                        You have added the word, "that." No such word exists in the Greek. It is a QUOTE.
                        It came straight from Young's Literal translation.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Rachel Redux View Post

                          It came straight from Young's Literal translation.
                          Odd that they would add a word, dont you think?
                          When all is said and done, one thing remains: Fear God and keep His commandments, for this is the whole of man.
                          Ecclesiastes 12:13

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Open Heart View Post

                            Odd that they would add a word, dont you think?
                            I'm impressed....
                            What credentials do you have that qualify you to translate Koine Greek??
                            Last edited by Rachel Redux; 03-25-2020, 01:01 PM.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Rachel Redux View Post

                              I'm impressed....
                              What credentials do you have that qualify you to translate Koine Greek??
                              Let's assume for the moment that you are right. You still have to find some reference somewhere in the prophets that states the messiah will be a Nazarene. It's simply not there. The word Nazarene is not in the Tanakh.
                              Last edited by Open Heart; 03-25-2020, 05:12 PM.
                              When all is said and done, one thing remains: Fear God and keep His commandments, for this is the whole of man.
                              Ecclesiastes 12:13

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Open Heart View Post

                                Let's assume for the moment that you are right. You still have to find some reference somewhere in the prophets that states the messiah will be a Nazarene. It's simply not there. The word Nazarene is not in the Tanakh.
                                I don't have an explanation for Matthew 2:23 but I'm not willing to dismiss it as a lie. It doesn't upset me.
                                ​​​​​
                                Having said that, I consider the writings of John to be my main witness for Yeshua as the Messiah.

                                Comment

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