The Church of Jesus Christ

And I simply posted the scripture which shows your position isn't Christian:

1 Timothy 2:5---King James Version
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;



That was the same accusation the traditional Jews were making against the NT church in adding the NT to the Hebrew Bible--to this very day.



Cite, please. Making up scenarios out of thin air isn't what I would label realistic. My point in posting scriptures is to show it isn't only me which disagrees with the critics here--but the Biblical text:

Ephesians 3:19--King James Version
19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

You haven't posted the first Biblical scripture, which isn't unusual for the critics here--nor have you engaged the testimony of the Biblical writers above.
DB…

I am answering and building on your OP…here it is again….
As I have pondered the thought of why the critics here would choose to attack The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints--one thought is prevalent in my musings.

The NT church had the living, mortal apostles and prophets. They had heavenly visitations to numerous occasions--with witnesses. They had the priesthood. Jesus Christ Himself visited them, and continuing revelation and scripture ensued. They had the temple--present and future, etc.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints also possess those same traits.

Yet--those who have little to none of that, --attack the very church which does have those things, claiming it as being false.

How is that persecution any different than what the traditional Jews leveled agaisnt the first century church of Jesus Christ?

1st I concede 100% we interpret the Bible differently…greatly.

In your OP you compare debating our different interpretations as persecution? How is debating scripture persecution? You start most the threads here, does that make you chief persecutor?

Secondly…I stated what I view as the main difference in what our faiths teach and believe is that LDS members and leaders, and I assume you…believe you can become just like God and Jesus…with the same Power, Knowledge, Glory and Dominion, and that you, can create worlds without ends for your spirit children.

Is it persecution that I don’t believe such a thing (anymore) and debate such teachings on a board that we are all members on? You signed in as a member as did I…right?

Your logic here does not add up…Buddist‘s have temples, as do Hindus, and unlike the temples in the Bible as is the LDS temples. The Jewish Temple had a specific puprose… among thsee were offering sacrifices. I believe you are comparing apples and oranges here. LDS temples are not even remotely close in type, style, function, and purpose as the Jewish Temple (singular), Not to mention the difference between synagogues vs chapels and stake centers.

But again I believe the LDS church is false, and again chief reason, of many reasons, they make themselves God’s…but remember your own scriptures teach that the mainstream Christian faiths are an abomination before God. Does that equal the persecution of the Christian faith?

Why are you reluctant to just admit we believe differently, and own what you believe, and quit trying to force your belief and interpretation on to others here. No Christian here believes they will ever have the same Glory and Power as God…which you seem to be very embarrassed to discuss…why?
 
DB…

I am answering and building on your OP…here it is again….

1st I concede 100% we interpret the Bible differently…greatly.

In your OP you compare debating our different interpretations as persecution? How is debating scripture persecution? You start most the threads here, does that make you chief persecutor?

Secondly…I stated what I view as the main difference in what our faiths teach and believe is that LDS members and leaders, and I assume you…believe you can become just like God and Jesus…with the same Power, Knowledge, Glory and Dominion, and that you, can create worlds without ends for your spirit children.

Is it persecution that I don’t believe such a thing (anymore) and debate such teachings on a board that we are all members on? You signed in as a member as did I…right?

Your logic here does not add up…Buddist‘s have temples, as do Hindus, and unlike the temples in the Bible as is the LDS temples. The Jewish Temple had a specific puprose… among thsee were offering sacrifices. I believe you are comparing apples and oranges here. LDS temples are not even remotely close in type, style, function, and purpose as the Jewish Temple (singular), Not to mention the difference between synagogues vs chapels and stake centers.

But again I believe the LDS church is false, and again chief reason, of many reasons, they make themselves God’s…but remember your own scriptures teach that the mainstream Christian faiths are an abomination before God. Does that equal the persecution of the Christian faith?

Why are you reluctant to just admit we believe differently, and own what you believe, and quit trying to force your belief and interpretation on to others here. No Christian here believes they will ever have the same Glory and Power as God…which you seem to be very embarrassed to discuss…why?

What a load of hooey!
 
How’s things going?

I remember when members were proud also, and proud to be called a Mormon…but now it is a disgrace I guess. For me, and I suspect yourself, it just adds to the lies we were taught growing up in the church. Add another notch on the door…

Today the brethren speak with very carefully chosen words…long gone are the days that they openly taught core doctrines in plain terms.

Honestly, I believe he may not even grasp what is taught, if not, he is certainly embarrassed to speak what is actually taught and expected of him.

Could you imagine if Franklin Graham or Greg Laurie taught at a crusade you can have the same power, knowledge, glory and dominion as God?

My point being in his OP he wonders why LDS doctrine is attacked yet he refuses to want to understand and admit why. Aside for the theological and systematic debate…I am just wanting to answer his implied question, and at least have a honest understanding of our differences.

I could really careless if they want to keep a sabbath day…or other non essential ’stuff’…but the answer to his question is really obvious when you dig in to what the church really teaches and is centered around, which is of course becoming Gods and Goddesses…claiming to be equal in nature with the Christian God is so off center to th Christian church I am not sure what they really expect.
Wellcome back good buddy, interested to see what you will bring up next to debate...

Richard.
 
What a load of hooey!
What specifically is hooey?

The LDS church is very clear that one of the blessings of ”eternal life”…which they teach is “Exaltation” is becoming a God which includes, quoting from chapter 47 of the teaching manual “Gospel Principles” …

”They will have everything that our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ have—all power, glory, dominion, and knowledge…”


The church also teaches in chapter 36 of the teaching manual “Gospel Fundamentals”…

They will receive everything our Father in Heaven has and will become like Him. They will even be able to have spirit children and make new worlds for them to live on, and do all the things our Father in Heaven has done.”


Why do you call this hooey?

Or are you calling it hooey that you believe your coming to a Christian site and attacking Christian Doctrine and then claiming you are being persecuted like the early Christians?

Either way these are fair answers worthy of your rebuttal in that they are directly specific answers to you open OP.

Or is you trying to compare LDS temples with The Jerusalem Temple hooey? Mae you can explain how they are one in the same?

Or is your assertion that the NT PH is some how the same as the LDS PH…maybe you can explain how they are the same, and the requirements for hold each PH respectively?

We can also discuss continuing revelation, and its impact and whether or not it compliments already accepted revelation and scripture.

DB, bottom line is no one is persecuting the LDS, heck if anything persecution is coming from within, from members wanting a more progressive liberial church and leadership…but I wouldn’t call that persecution. But for sure debating each other’s doctrines on the internet is hardly prosecution.
 
Wellcome back good buddy, nice to see what you will bring up next to debate...

Richard.
Thanks, i doubt if I will hang around too long, I am home stuck in the rain for the holiday. We are finally getting much needed rain here in so ca.

But I tell you what if I think of a good topic for you I will start a thread for you…:)

Hope all is well for you and your family
 
Thanks, i doubt if I will hang around too long, I am home stuck in the rain for the holiday. We are finally getting much needed rain here in so ca.

But I tell you what if I think of a good topic for you I will start a thread for you…:)

Hope all is well for you and your family
Thx good buddy, but we long ago came to loggerheads on merit, works, and earned... but nice to see you check in every once in a while.
 
Lastdaysbeliever?
"They" is not we, or us, or the church. But I've answered you on this before and as usual you just toss out more unrelated Bible verses. Not only that you keep posting the same things, as if you believe you will get a different outcome if you keep repeating yourself. Do you know what that is a sign of? I do.

Keep doing that db, that is your right, but as for me, this regurgitation tactic and misinterpretation of Scripture you keep tossing out, as if that somehow makes you an "apologist par excellence" is why I will limit any discussion with you. You are of darkness and you don't know the light. I am praying for your salvation and exit from the slavery of mormonism.
 
DB…

You addressed how the LDS church (doctrine) is attacked by Christians. Okay fair enough, if writing posts is persecution . I am simply telling you why. We have a fundamentally different interpretation of the Bible and the LDS church has extra biblical doctrines.

You are upset because LDS doctrine is questioned and disputed by those here, yet all you do is attack what we believe and insist that we are wrong in our interpretations and you have the only true interpretations.

I have no problem accepting LDS interpretations of the Bible as being LDS…why do you insist that we can’t have our own? The bottom line is that there is not any main stream Christian Churches that would come close to entertaining the man can have the same Glory, Knowledge , Power , and Dominion of God. To the Christian it is the highest form of blasphemy possible.

You being a man, make yourself a God…that is just not an acceptable interpretation or doctrine.

If you believe that the Bible teaches that fine, but you are in a very small percentile that would come close to believing that.

Do you believe that you will have the same Glory and Power as God and Christ?

In regards to the difference against persecution of 1st century Christians…killing and harming them…to writing and teaching what the LDS church teaches on internet a fourm…there is no comparison.

Think about it DB…I am simply telling folks, after 34 years of believing it, what the church teaches, and that I now believe it is blasphamy…and you want to compare that to Christian persecution in the 1st century…go figure?
Nice to see you back, Mark. We missed your thoughtful, common sense posts on here. :)
 
"They" is not we, or us, or the church.

I beg to differ:

1 Corinthians 15:17-18--King James Version
17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

1 Corinthians 15:29---King James Version
29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

Could you explain why those who are fallen asleep in Christ--are not part of the church?
 
What specifically is hooey?

The LDS church is very clear that one of the blessings of ”eternal life”…which they teach is “Exaltation” is becoming a God which includes, quoting from chapter 47 of the teaching manual “Gospel Principles” …

”They will have everything that our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ have—all power, glory, dominion, and knowledge…”


You still haven't explained for us how that differs from the Biblical testimony:

Ephesians 3:19--King James Version
19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

While you are at it--did these become gods--or were they gods all along?

John 10:34-35---King James Version
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
 
Your logic here does not add up…Buddist‘s have temples, as do Hindus, and unlike the temples in the Bible as is the LDS temples.

Neither the Buddhist nor the Hindus claim any affiliation with Jesus Christ.

So--what is there about this testimony which you don't feel patterns the LDS temple?

Revelation 7:13-15---King James Version
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

I've attended the LDS temple for some time--and that seems like a description of an LDS temple. If you disagree--please let us know what you find there--which isn't found in an LDS temple.

The Jewish Temple had a specific puprose… among thsee were offering sacrifices. I believe you are comparing apples and oranges here. LDS temples are not even remotely close in type, style, function, and purpose as the Jewish Temple (singular), Not to mention the difference between synagogues vs chapels and stake centers.

What is your evidence the servants here were offering animal sacrifices? Again--please note for us what you find in Rev7:13-15 which isn't even "remotely close" to an LDS temple.

Just so your church doesn't have a temple such as the description in Rev 7--does not mean the LDS church don't.

But again I believe the LDS church is false, and again chief reason, of many reasons,

How is that any different than what the traditional Jews leveled against the NT church?

Why are you reluctant to just admit we believe differently, and own what you believe, and quit trying to force your belief and interpretation on to others here.

Another load of hooey.

No Christian here believes they will ever have the same Glory and Power as God…which you seem to be very embarrassed to discuss…why?

You still haven't engaged the scripture:

Ephesians 3:19--King James Version
19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

Please engage that scripture--and explain to us how that differs from your accusation?
 
I beg to differ:

1 Corinthians 15:17-18--King James Version
17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

1 Corinthians 15:29---King James Version
29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

Could you explain why those who are fallen asleep in Christ--are not part of the church?
You ignore the context. Clearly 17-18 is discussing born-again followers of the Way. 29 is not. But you are blinded by mormonism and are incapable of seeing the truth. Sad.
 
You still haven't explained for us how that differs from the Biblical testimony:

Ephesians 3:19--King James Version
19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

While you are at it--did these become gods--or were they gods all along?

John 10:34-35---King James Version
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
What does that have to do with your OP and question? I conceded I interpret thone verses differently and over the years we have discussed the Christian view over and over again. Remember the several time I asked yo to go through paul letter to the Ephesians and you declined? The audience is to believers, those already “in Christ” and though and in Christ they received the fullness of God being clothed in the righteousness of Christ. I will ask you again if you want to start a study of Ephesians lets go through together and see what Paul’s message was to the folks.

Start by underlining in the first three chapters how many times Paul express one way another that the folks were “in” Christ Jesus. This import in that the verse you stated is parent tense…meaning they were filled with Gods fullness being in Christ.

Obviously being present tense that does not fit the LDS doctrine of eternal progression which happens over time.

The gods as Talmage understood were judges…that is the Christian view…apparently you believe these wicked folks were sinning exalted men, who becam Gods then fell….that is not the view i hold or how I translate the passages.
 
"They" is not we, or us, or the church. But I've answered you on this before and as usual you just toss out more unrelated Bible verses. Not only that you keep posting the same things, as if you believe you will get a different outcome if you keep repeating yourself. Do you know what that is a sign of? I do.

Keep doing that db, that is your right, but as for me, this regurgitation tactic and misinterpretation of Scripture you keep tossing out, as if that somehow makes you an "apologist par excellence" is why I will limit any discussion with you. You are of darkness and you don't know the light. I am praying for your salvation and exit from the slavery of mormonism.
Your'e the one that said "others" and now you have been corrected... speaking of darkness! I would replace that with blind and deft to the Christians that frequent this FORUM... there is no debating just the casual... regurgitation and other backpedaling from your false claims.

You're acting like a troll, obviously your being annoying and irritating...

 
What does that have to do with your OP and question? I conceded I interpret thone verses differently and over the years we have discussed the Christian view over and over again. Remember the several time I asked yo to go through paul letter to the Ephesians and you declined? The audience is to believers, those already “in Christ” and though and in Christ they received the fullness of God being clothed in the righteousness of Christ. I will ask you again if you want to start a study of Ephesians lets go through together and see what Paul’s message was to the folks.

Start by underlining in the first three chapters how many times Paul express one way another that the folks were “in” Christ Jesus. This import in that the verse you stated is parent tense…meaning they were filled with Gods fullness being in Christ.

Obviously being present tense that does not fit the LDS doctrine of eternal progression which happens over time.

The gods as Talmage understood were judges…that is the Christian view…apparently you believe these wicked folks were sinning exalted men, who becam Gods then fell….that is not the view i hold or how I translate the passages.
Hi Marrk, do you still think that gays will eventually be accepted as married couples or partners as part of our doctrine and do you also still believe women will hold the Priesthood... if you like we can take this to another topic to discuss. I was just wondering if you had changed your mind... thx.
 
Your'e the one that said "others" and now you have been corrected... speaking of darkness! I would replace that with blind and deft to the Christians that frequent this FORUM... there is no debating just the casual... regurgitation and other backpedaling from your false claims.

You're acting like a troll, obviously your being annoying and irritating...
So what. I wrote other rather then they from the KJV. Some translations use people, those, etc. That doesn't change that they who are asleep in Christ are in no way the dead. Get it? Asleep in Christ vs. the dead. You are in darkness Richard. You do not know the light. Sad.
 
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Hi Marrk, do you still think that gays will eventually be accepted as married couples or partners as part of our doctrine and do you also still believe women will hold the Priesthood... if you like we can take this to another topic to discuss. I was just wondering if you had changed your mind... thx.
Sure start a thread
 
So what. I wrote other rather then they from the KJV. Some translations use people, those, etc. That doesn't change that they who are asleep in Christ are in no way the dead. Get it? Asleep in Christ vs. the dead. You are in darkness Richard. You do not know the light. Sad.
Really, I mean really? care to examine the Bible a little more closely... chuckle

1 THESS. 4.14.
— Even so them also which sleep in Jesus, will God bring with him.

1_Corinthians 15:18

Then they also who are fallen asleep in Christ have perished.

1_Corinthians 15:20

But now Christ has been raised from the dead. He became the first fruits of those who are asleep.
 
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