One Spirit

D

dingoling.

Well-known member
From Scripture:

Ephesians 3:4-6, "there is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one hope of your calling, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is above all and through all and in all."


From the CCC

II. Inspiration and Truth of Sacred Scripture

105 God is the author of Sacred Scripture. "The divinely revealed realities, which are contained and presented in the text of Sacred Scripture, have been written down under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit."69

"For Holy Mother Church, relying on the faith of the apostolic age, accepts as sacred and canonical the books of the Old and the New Testaments, whole and entire, with all their parts, on the grounds that, written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, they have God as their author, and have been handed on as such to the Church herself."70

106 God inspired the human authors of the sacred books. "To compose the sacred books, God chose certain men who, all the while he employed them in this task, made full use of their own faculties and powers so that, though he acted in them and by them, it was as true authors that they consigned to writing whatever he wanted written, and no more."71

107 The inspired books teach the truth. "Since therefore all that the inspired authors or sacred writers affirm should be regarded as affirmed by the Holy Spirit, we must acknowledge that the books of Scripture firmly, faithfully, and without error teach that truth which God, for the sake of our salvation, wished to see confided to the Sacred Scriptures."72

108 Still, the Christian faith is not a "religion of the book". Christianity is the religion of the "Word" of God, "not a written and mute word, but incarnate and living".73 If the Scriptures are not to remain a dead letter, Christ, the eternal Word of the living God, must, through the Holy Spirit, "open (our) minds to understand the Scriptures."74
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Both CC and nCCs believe that scripture is the inspired word of God and that the Holy Spirit guides us into all the truth.

However there are many disagreements among Christians as to our understanding of scripture and we all claim that our particular understanding of scripture is from the Holy Spirit.

Paul says, "Now I appeal to you, brothers and sisters, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you be in agreement and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same purpose."

So is there any other mechanism that God has given us to discern whose understanding is correct so that we may be united in the same mind and the same purpose with no divisions among us?
 
dingoling. said:
...
II. Inspiration and Truth of Sacred Scripture[/B]

105 God is the author of Sacred Scripture. "The divinely revealed realities, which are contained and presented in the text of Sacred Scripture, have been written down under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit."69...
Click to expand...
Does that include Apocrypha?

...
106 God inspired the human authors of the sacred books.
Click to expand...
Scripturally, the Holy Spirit moved the authors, not inspired the authors; God's word is given by inspiration of God.

So is there any other mechanism that God has given us to discern whose understanding is correct so that we may be united in the same mind and the same purpose with no divisions among us?
Click to expand...
2Tim 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
2Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Tim 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Case in point:
For Holy Mother Church ...
Click to expand...
Not God's inspired word.
 
PeanutGallery said:
Does that include Apocrypha?


Scripturally, the Holy Spirit moved the authors, not inspired the authors; God's word is given by inspiration of God.


2Tim 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
2Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Tim 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Case in point:

Not God's inspired word.
Click to expand...
E.g. so is the bread and wine the body and blood of Christ or is it symbolic? How do we know what the truth is?
 
dingoling. said:
E.g. so is the bread and wine the body and blood of Christ or is it symbolic? How do we know what the truth is?
Click to expand...
The bread and wine are symbolically the body and blood of Christ
But you also claim that the substance of the bread and wine is NO LONGER PRESENT;

prove it
 
dingoling. said:
So, you make the claim that the bread and wine are symbolic. How do we know what is the truth?
Click to expand...
my interpretation is in harmony with the rest of Scripture: (whether implicitly or explicitly stated)
however: you usually avoid answering questions about when did propitiation take place: when did the New Covent go into effect; and the penalty for sins being paid

When a passage can be interpreted in different ways: the interpretation that contradicts other Scriptures ; must be in error.

The New Covenant
When did the new covenant go into effect? Take a swing! What is you answer?

Hebrews 9:
15 Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, (diathéké) so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant. 16 For where a will (diathéké) is involved, the death of the one who made it must be established.17For a will (diathéké) takes effect only at death, since it is not in force as long as the one who made it is alive."
----------------------

forgiveness of sin.
When was the penalty of sins paid for? Take a swing: What is you answer?

1 Corinthians 15:3
Christ died for our sins, according to Scriptures

1 Peter 3:18
Christ died for sins, once for all”

Hebrews 9:15
15 Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant


Isaiah 53:
because he poured out his life unto death,
and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors
------------------

Propitiation (the appeasement of God’s wrath)
When was the propitiation made? Take a swing! What is you answer?

Romans 5:7-9
7 For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die— 8 but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.

Colossians 1:21-22
And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach—
 
1Thess521 said:
my interpretation is in harmony with the rest of Scripture: (whether implicitly or explicitly stated)
however: you usually avoid answering questions about when did propitiation take place: when did the New Covent go into effect; and the penalty for sins being paid

When a passage can be interpreted in different ways: the interpretation that contradicts other Scriptures ; must be in error.

The New Covenant
When did the new covenant go into effect? Take a swing! What is you answer?

Hebrews 9:
15 Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, (diathéké) so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant. 16 For where a will (diathéké) is involved, the death of the one who made it must be established.17For a will (diathéké) takes effect only at death, since it is not in force as long as the one who made it is alive."
----------------------

forgiveness of sin.
When was the penalty of sins paid for? Take a swing: What is you answer?

1 Corinthians 15:3
Christ died for our sins, according to Scriptures

1 Peter 3:18
Christ died for sins, once for all”

Hebrews 9:15
15 Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant


Isaiah 53:
because he poured out his life unto death,
and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors
------------------

Propitiation (the appeasement of God’s wrath)
When was the propitiation made? Take a swing! What is you answer?

Romans 5:7-9
7 For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die— 8 but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.

Colossians 1:21-22
And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach—
Click to expand...
Your interpretation contradicts other scriptures. So how do we know what is the truth?
 
dingoling. said:
Your interpretation contradicts other scriptures. So how do we know what is the truth?
Click to expand...
nope : not a one


however: you usually avoid answering questions about when did propitiation take place:
when did the New Covent go into effect; and the penalty for sins being paid?

my answers; with death of Christ while on the Cross

Your answers: at the Last Supper:
try again without contradicting Scripture

The New Covenant
When did the new covenant go into effect? Take a swing! What is you answer?

Hebrews 9:
15 Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, (diathéké) so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant. 16 For where a will (diathéké) is involved, the death of the one who made it must be established.17For a will (diathéké) takes effect only at death, since it is not in force as long as the one who made it is alive."
----------------------

forgiveness of sin.
When was the penalty of sins paid for? Take a swing: What is you answer?

1 Corinthians 15:3
Christ died for our sins, according to Scriptures

1 Peter 3:18
Christ died for sins, once for all”

Hebrews 9:15
15 Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant


Isaiah 53:
because he poured out his life unto death,
and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors
------------------

Propitiation (the appeasement of God’s wrath)
When was the propitiation made? Take a swing! What is you answer?

Romans 5:7-9
7 For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die— 8 but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.

Colossians 1:21-22
And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach—
 
1Thess521 said:
nope : not a one


however: you usually avoid answering questions about when did propitiation take place:
when did the New Covent go into effect; and the penalty for sins being paid?

my answers; with death of Christ while on the Cross

Your answers: at the Last Supper:
try again without contradicting Scripture

The New Covenant
When did the new covenant go into effect? Take a swing! What is you answer?

Hebrews 9:
15 Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, (diathéké) so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant. 16 For where a will (diathéké) is involved, the death of the one who made it must be established.17For a will (diathéké) takes effect only at death, since it is not in force as long as the one who made it is alive."
----------------------

forgiveness of sin.
When was the penalty of sins paid for? Take a swing: What is you answer?

1 Corinthians 15:3
Christ died for our sins, according to Scriptures

1 Peter 3:18
Christ died for sins, once for all”

Hebrews 9:15
15 Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant


Isaiah 53:
because he poured out his life unto death,
and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors
------------------

Propitiation (the appeasement of God’s wrath)
When was the propitiation made? Take a swing! What is you answer?

Romans 5:7-9
7 For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die— 8 but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.

Colossians 1:21-22
And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach—
Click to expand...
Yes, your interpretation does contradict other scripture. Jesus said that the bread and wine are his body and blood and you say that it is not, that it is symbolic.

The CC, Orthodox and most Lutheran churches say that Jesus was not speaking symbolically.

So again how do we know what is the truth?
 
Lastdaysbeliever said:
Same old same old ding....post a topic and then deflect it into the RCc bread and wine claim...
Click to expand...
It was one of many examples that divide us and not a deflection. The question still remains is how to we know what is the truth. The only answer so far was a quote from II Timothy 3. So I guess the posted is saying that the only truth that we know is what scripture actually says.
 
dingoling. said:
Yes, your interpretation does contradict other scripture. Jesus said that the bread and wine are his body and blood and you say that it is not, that it is symbolic.
Click to expand...
Jesus' word do NOT rule out that He could be speaking symbolically
dingoling. said:
The CC, Orthodox and most Lutheran churches say that Jesus was not speaking symbolically.
Click to expand...
Lutherans do NOT teach substance of the wine and bread are now gone:
I don't care what the EO teaches
dingoling. said:
So again how do we know what is the truth?
Click to expand...
and AGAIN :
When a passage can be interpreted in different ways: the interpretation that contradicts other Scriptures ; must be in error.

AND AGAIN

Stop avoiding my questions:
The New Covenant
When did the new covenant go into effect? Take a swing! What is you answer?

Hebrews 9:
15 Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, (diathéké) so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant. 16 For where a will (diathéké) is involved, the death of the one who made it must be established.17For a will (diathéké) takes effect only at death, since it is not in force as long as the one who made it is alive."
----------------------

forgiveness of sin.
When was the penalty of sins paid for? Take a swing: What is you answer?

1 Corinthians 15:3
Christ died for our sins, according to Scriptures

1 Peter 3:18
Christ died for sins, once for all”

Hebrews 9:15
15 Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant


Isaiah 53:
because he poured out his life unto death,
and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors
------------------

Propitiation (the appeasement of God’s wrath)
When was the propitiation made? Take a swing! What is you answer?

Romans 5:7-9
7 For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die— 8 but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.

Colossians 1:21-22
And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach—
 
1Thess521 said:
Jesus' word do NOT rule out that He could be speaking symbolically

Lutherans do NOT teach substance of the wine and bread are now gone:
I don't care what the EO teaches

and AGAIN :
When a passage can be interpreted in different ways: the interpretation that contradicts other Scriptures ; must be in error.

AND AGAIN

Stop avoiding my questions:
The New Covenant
When did the new covenant go into effect? Take a swing! What is you answer?

Hebrews 9:
15 Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, (diathéké) so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant. 16 For where a will (diathéké) is involved, the death of the one who made it must be established.17For a will (diathéké) takes effect only at death, since it is not in force as long as the one who made it is alive."
----------------------

forgiveness of sin.
When was the penalty of sins paid for? Take a swing: What is you answer?

1 Corinthians 15:3
Christ died for our sins, according to Scriptures

1 Peter 3:18
Christ died for sins, once for all”

Hebrews 9:15
15 Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant


Isaiah 53:
because he poured out his life unto death,
and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors
------------------

Propitiation (the appeasement of God’s wrath)
When was the propitiation made? Take a swing! What is you answer?

Romans 5:7-9
7 For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die— 8 but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.

Colossians 1:21-22
And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach—
Click to expand...
The question isn't so much, at this point, what is the truth; the question is how to we know what is the truth. You said:

When a passage can be interpreted in different ways: the interpretation that contradicts other Scriptures ; must be in error.

Jesus' word do NOT rule out that He could be speaking symbolically

The other churches though that believe the bread and wine are not symbolic and do not contradict scripture, even considering those verses that you have posted.

So how do we determine what is the truth?
 
dingoling. said:
It was one of many examples that divide us and not a deflection. The question still remains is how to we know what is the truth. The only answer so far was a quote from II Timothy 3. So I guess the posted is saying that the only truth that we know is what scripture actually says.
Click to expand...
It is a deflection ding, and one of your favorite cudgels.

Interpreting Scripture must be interpreted by other Scripture. So, if Jesus claims He is

  • Living Water.
  • Light on a path/Light to the world.
  • Vine/Branches.
  • Potter/Clay.
  • Bridegroom.
  • Shepard.
  • the Word.
  • Bread of Life
according to your argument He is literally all of these things if bread is His real body and wine is His real blood.
 
Lastdaysbeliever said:
It is a deflection ding, and one of your favorite cudgels.

Interpreting Scripture must be interpreted by other Scripture. So, if Jesus claims He is

  • Living Water.
  • Light on a path/Light to the world.
  • Vine/Branches.
  • Potter/Clay.
  • Bridegroom.
  • Shepard.
  • the Word.
  • Bread of Life
according to your argument He is literally all of these things if bread is His real body and wine is His real blood.
Click to expand...

It wasn't intended to be a deflection. The question is:

So is there any other mechanism that God has given us to discern whose understanding is correct so that we may be united in the same mind and the same purpose with no divisions among us?
Click to expand...

Do you have an answer? Thanks.
 
]]
And the Lord God said unto the serpent,
Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle,
and above every beast of the field;
upon thy belly shalt thou go,
and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

dingoling. said:
It was one of many examples that divide us and not a deflection. The question still remains is how to we know what is the truth. The only answer so far was a quote from II Timothy 3. So I guess the posted is saying that the only truth that we know is what scripture actually says.
================= end ding's
post a topic and then deflect it into the RCc bread and wine claim...
"foaming out their own shame; "


15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman,
and between thy seed and her seed;
it shall bruise thy head,
and thou shalt bruise his heel.
 
Context:
dingoling. said:
So, you make the claim that the bread and wine are symbolic. How do we know what is the truth?
Click to expand...
Literal:
Acts 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

Metaphor:
John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
 
PeanutGallery said:
Context:
Literal:
Acts 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

Metaphor:
John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Click to expand...

So appealing to your personal interpretation of the scripture is how we determine the truth?
 
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