"biblically based"

D

dberrie2020

Super Member
Lastdaysbeliever said:
  1. Cults and sects usually claim to be biblically based, Christian organizations. For example, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS) maintains that it is a Christian church centered on Christ and His teachings.
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Lastdays--I have asked you--and other critics here--what do you find in the Biblical NT--which isn't found in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints--as far as salvational doctrines go?

Crickets, so far.

So--if the critics here are going to accuse the LDS of not being Biblically based, as far as the salvational doctrines found in the NT--then they should be willing to list those salvational doctrines.
 
preacher4truth said:
A group of mormon's isn't church. Standing and "preaching" from the Bible doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in a laundry room makes you a washing machine. John 3:7.
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You might want to relate that to the one who claims John3:16 is a Biblical NT scripture which isn't found in LDS theology:

dberrie2020 said:
Lastdays--I have asked you--and other critics here--what do you find in the Biblical NT--which isn't found in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints--as far as salvational doctrines go?
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CrowCross said: Well, Johh 3:16.
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And while I agree with you in that--me quoting any scripture in church does not make it LDS theology--the fact The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints have the Biblical text as canonized scripture is evidence they believe the Biblical witness.

So--by the same token as your remarks above pattern--claiming the LDS church doesn't include John3:16 in their theology--does not make it so either.

It's up to Crow to prove otherwise--he made the claim, and standing in a laundry room won't help him or you in providing evidence supporting that claim.

LDS believe John3:16 very strongly. I've served in leadership positions in the LDS church for some time now, and I have an inside view of that.

What's your evidence otherwise, as to the LDS inclusion of John3:16 as their theology?

John3:16 For God So Loved the World----https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/comeuntochrist/believe/bible/john-3-16​


God loves us immensely. His greatest gift to humankind—His Son, Jesus Christ—reflects that love and is central to His plan of happiness for all of His children.

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

—John 3:16

God loves all of us​

God loves everyone with an everlasting love. He is the father of our spirits. We are His children. He loves each one of us individually and wants us to come to know and love Him.

He sent His Son Jesus Christ​

God knew that this life would be full of challenges and uncertainty. He knew that we would fall short and make mistakes. So He sent His Son, Jesus Christ, to earth. Jesus lived a perfect, sinless life. He taught His gospel and showed us the right way to live. He willingly gave his own life as a sacrifice for our sins. He is our loving Savior and Redeemer.
 
dberrie2020 said:
You might want to relate that to the one who claims John3:16 is a Biblical NT scripture which isn't found in LDS theology:





And while I agree with you in that--me quoting any scripture in church does not make it LDS theology--the fact The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints have the Biblical text as canonized scripture is evidence they believe the Biblical witness.

So--by the same token as your remarks above pattern--claiming the LDS church doesn't include John3:16 in their theology--does not make it so either.

It's up to Crow to prove otherwise--he made the claim, and standing in a laundry room won't help him or you in providing evidence supporting that claim.

LDS believe John3:16 very strongly. I've served in leadership positions in the LDS church for some time now, and I have an inside view of that.

What's your evidence otherwise, as to the LDS inclusion of John3:16 as their theology?

John3:16 For God So Loved the World----https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/comeuntochrist/believe/bible/john-3-16​


God loves us immensely. His greatest gift to humankind—His Son, Jesus Christ—reflects that love and is central to His plan of happiness for all of His children.

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

—John 3:16

God loves all of us​

God loves everyone with an everlasting love. He is the father of our spirits. We are His children. He loves each one of us individually and wants us to come to know and love Him.

He sent His Son Jesus Christ​

God knew that this life would be full of challenges and uncertainty. He knew that we would fall short and make mistakes. So He sent His Son, Jesus Christ, to earth. Jesus lived a perfect, sinless life. He taught His gospel and showed us the right way to live. He willingly gave his own life as a sacrifice for our sins. He is our loving Savior and Redeemer.
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According to your link...A bit more than John 3:16 is required for salvation:

Within Jesus Christ’s teachings we find the plan for our happiness, our redemption, and our salvation—a divine blueprint that includes faith in Christ, repentance, baptism, keeping God’s commandments, receiving the Holy Ghost, and enduring to the end. These are the saving principles taught by Jesus Christ, the bedrock on which His Gospel is built.

....will you still claim "works" are not part of the false mormon gospel?
 
CrowCross said:
According to your link...A bit more than John 3:16 is required for salvation:

Within Jesus Christ’s teachings we find the plan for our happiness, our redemption, and our salvation—a divine blueprint that includes faith in Christ, repentance, baptism, keeping God’s commandments, receiving the Holy Ghost, and enduring to the end. These are the saving principles taught by Jesus Christ, the bedrock on which His Gospel is built.
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Which principles are all integral components of "faith in Jesus Christ".

CrowCross said:
....will you still claim "works" are not part of the false mormon gospel?
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Cite, please. I haven't claimed any such thing.

"works", as in certain works of the Mosaic law--no. "works", as in obedience to God's NT covenant--yes.

James 2:16-26---King James Version
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
 
dberrie2020 said:
Which principles are all integral components of "faith in Jesus Christ".



Cite, please. I haven't claimed any such thing.

"works", as in certain works of the Mosaic law--no. "works", as in obedience to God's NT covenant--yes.

James 2:16-26---King James Version
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
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Keeping God’s commandments.....which is something you don't do.

So, what will you do about that as you hope you're enduring to the end.

Then again it's the mormon way to suggust you don't have to keep Gods commandments if you want to get ahead in life and enjoy it.

Go ask Adam and Eve who had to break one of Gods commandments just to have kids. Thank God they committed that act of disobedience or you would not be here.
 
dberrie2020 said:
Lastdays--I have asked you--and other critics here--what do you find in the Biblical NT--which isn't found in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints--as far as salvational doctrines go?

Crickets, so far.

So--if the critics here are going to accuse the LDS of not being Biblically based, as far as the salvational doctrines found in the NT--then they should be willing to list those salvational doctrines.
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People who think they will become a God, with All power that HF and Jesus have.
 
Markk said:
People who think they will become a God, with All power that HF and Jesus have.
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Give us a scriptural reference to what you are referring to.

Maybe this?

Revelation 3:21---King James Version
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
 
CrowCross said:
Keeping God’s commandments....
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The Lord connected keeping the commandments with eternal life:

Matthew 19:16-19---King James Version
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

So--that means the LDS church and the Biblical text agree.

What else ya got?
 
dberrie2020 said:
The Lord connected keeping the commandments with eternal life:

Matthew 19:16-19---King James Version
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

So--that means the LDS church and the Biblical text agree.

What else ya got?
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AS NOTED BEFORE....YOU ONLY QUOTED 1/2 OF THE VERSES. STOP LYING.
 
dberrie2020 said:
You might want to relate that to the one who claims John3:16 is a Biblical NT scripture which isn't found in LDS theology:
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Nope, I'm talking to you. A group opf mormons isn't a church, it's a cult. It isn't Christianity.

Standing and "preaching" from the Bible doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in a laundry room makes you a washing machine. John 3:7.
 
preacher4truth said:
Nope, I'm talking to you. A group opf mormons isn't a church, it's a cult. It isn't Christianity.
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I'm not here to discuss your straw man construction of prejudices--but if you want to discuss what you find in the Biblical NT--which isn't found in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, as far as salvational doctrines go--that would be a good starting point.

You aren't going to able to do that, IMO. I find the Biblical text just isn't friendly to the critic's position here--regardless of what they claim:

Matthew 19:16-19---King James Version
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Preacher--where is your Bible?

preacher4truth said:
Standing and "preaching" from the Bible doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in a laundry room makes you a washing machine. John 3:7.
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As I stated--I agree with that. That doesn't prove the LDS don't believe in John3:16, and standing in a laundry room won't change that.

So--what proof do you have the LDS don't believe in John3:16?

John3:16 For God So Loved the World----https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/comeuntochrist/believe/bible/john-3-16​


God loves us immensely. His greatest gift to humankind—His Son, Jesus Christ—reflects that love and is central to His plan of happiness for all of His children.

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

—John 3:16

God loves all of us​

God loves everyone with an everlasting love. He is the father of our spirits. We are His children. He loves each one of us individually and wants us to come to know and love Him.

He sent His Son Jesus Christ​

God knew that this life would be full of challenges and uncertainty. He knew that we would fall short and make mistakes. So He sent His Son, Jesus Christ, to earth. Jesus lived a perfect, sinless life. He taught His gospel and showed us the right way to live. He willingly gave his own life as a sacrifice for our sins. He is our loving Savior and Redeemer.
 
dberrie2020 said:
I'm not here to discuss your straw man construction of prejudices--but if you want to discuss what you find in the Biblical NT--which isn't found in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, as far as salvational doctrines go--that would be a good starting point.

You aren't going to able to do that, IMO. I find the Biblical text just isn't friendly to the critic's position here--regardless of what they claim:

Matthew 19:16-19---King James Version
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Preacher--where is your Bible?



As I stated--I agree with that. That doesn't prove the LDS don't believe in John3:16, and standing in a laundry room won't change that.

So--what proof do you have the LDS don't believe in John3:16?

John3:16 For God So Loved the World----https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/comeuntochrist/believe/bible/john-3-16​


God loves us immensely. His greatest gift to humankind—His Son, Jesus Christ—reflects that love and is central to His plan of happiness for all of His children.

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

—John 3:16

God loves all of us​

God loves everyone with an everlasting love. He is the father of our spirits. We are His children. He loves each one of us individually and wants us to come to know and love Him.

He sent His Son Jesus Christ​

God knew that this life would be full of challenges and uncertainty. He knew that we would fall short and make mistakes. So He sent His Son, Jesus Christ, to earth. Jesus lived a perfect, sinless life. He taught His gospel and showed us the right way to live. He willingly gave his own life as a sacrifice for our sins. He is our loving Savior and Redeemer.
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You have a false religion, a false gospel, a false Christ, a false God, a false view of man, a false book, and your hope is built upon all of that.

Go try and figure out what that all means.
 
CrowCross said:
AS NOTED BEFORE....YOU ONLY QUOTED 1/2 OF THE VERSES. STOP LYING.
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All of the verses here are quoted in complete form:

Matthew 19:16-19---King James Version
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Just so it violates your theology does not mean it's a lie. If you believe it is--then your argument is with the Lord, not me.
 
preacher4truth said:
You have a false religion, a false gospel, a false Christ, a false God, a false view of man, a false book, and your hope is built upon all of that.

Go try and figure out what that all means.
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It means you have a prejudice which is bigger than your ability to explain it using the Biblical text.

Again--I'm not here to discuss your prejudices--and I have asked you to use the Biblical text to show us what you find in the Biblical NT--which isn't found in the LDS church, as far as salvational doctrines go.

You failed to do so--and there is a reason why--and that reason is--you can't. That sounds a loud cry against your prejudices, IMO.

Revelation 22:14---King James Version
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
 
dberrie2020 said:
Give us a scriptural reference to what you are referring to.

Maybe this?

Revelation 3:21---King James Version
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
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So, if you believe that means you can become a God with the same power and Knowledge of God...as the LDS forces members too believe. What do you believe overcometh means? John wrote this, so what does he believe it means and how does he define that in context.

It is amazing to me, even though it should not be, how LDS men need to find some sort of justification in Biblical passages that they can become a God. It seems that almost all your posts, are to try to convince other that it is okay top believe one can become a God, feeding the God complex that the church puts on their weaker members.

So anyways...what did John say it means to "overcometh?" and once you figure that out who is the audience? Just men, or ar women allowed to sit down by the father. It seems to me, that you just might be promoting a doctrine that somehow discriminates against women, in regard to the context of this passage, that you obviously did zero homework on.

So once again...who are those that overcometh according to John?
 
Markk said:
So, if you believe that means you can become a God with the same power and Knowledge of God...
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I believe it is just what it states--those who sit upon the throne of God:

Revelation 3:21---King James Version
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

So--do you believe that is true, IE--that those who inherit eternal life will sit upon His throne--just as He overcame--and sat down on His Father's throne?

The question then becomes--what are those who sit upon the throne of God?

Just so that violates your theology--does not mean it isn't true.

Markk said:
as the LDS forces members too believe.
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What a load of hooey.
 
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