Is the Spirit owned by all three members of the Trinity?

Andreas said:
Isaiah 42:1 is talking about the Messiah, and the Spirit in reference to the man Christ Jesus. God was manifested in the flesh, so Jesus is God by very nature and had no beginning as God. However, the incarnation, his manifestation in flesh had a definite beginning in time and space (Galatians 4:4).

Most mistakes in theology have to do with not accepting or understanding the authentic humanity of the Messiah and what that actually meant in relation to God, who is Spirit.

You say Jesus is God, but also know that since he is God he had no beginning as to his deity. God had no beginning and no one can, by definition become God.

There is a far simpler and Biblical accurate manner in which to understand the Spirit of God. As you say, God is Spirit. This is his essence. To experience the Spirit is to experience God (Psalm 139). The term "Holy Spirit" is simply another term for the Spirit of God. God's fundamental moral nature is Holiness, and his basic essence or nature is Spirit. Holy Spirit then is a term used primarily to identify the Spirit of God moving in and acting upon mankind, particularly born-again believers.

Distinctions and relationships between Father, Son, and Holy Spirit all have to do with the humanity of Christ and how God's Spirit functions in relationship to humanity.
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The orthodox doctrine of the early church was that Jesus had a beginning at some point in infinity, but that He always existed within the Father as the "essence of His being." This was also taught by Wesley, Calvin and others. By the third and fourth councils you had to believe that Jesus was twice begotten, once prior to His incarnation and then again through Mary or you were anathema or cursed. If Jesus did not have a beginning then we do not have a Father and Son but two gods and we have jumped the fence into polytheism. What God begat was Jesus' soul or person. In order for Jesus to take our sins upon His soul His soul would have to be a distinct begotten entity from the Father. The word begotten is used because any one who is birthed must come from a preexisting substance. Jesus' soul was begotten from the pre-existing substance of the Father's Spirit. Then unified with the Holy Spirit as we see happening in Isaiah 42:1. Then Jesus unified with the Holy Spirit was placed in Mary's womb. Jesus' life source was the Holy Spirit and not the breath that gave life to Adam. Paul recognized this distinction in I Corinthians 15:45 - And so it is written, the first Adam was made a living soul. The last Adam was made a quickening (life giving) Spirit. This is very important because the life in Jesus' blood Leviticus 17:11 is capable of giving us eternal life The breath of life that animated Adam was never intended nor capable of enabling the soul to ascend to heaven after the death of the body. Thus a new source of animation had to be imparted to humans and that is the Holy Spirit of eternal life from the Father, which is released to us through faith in the atonement.
Jesus' Spirit is the Holy Spirit which is God's Spirit and the Spirit has no beginning, but Jesus' soul did. It's interesting to note that the word for soul is used in association with God and Jesus but never the Holy Spirit. Soul and Spirit are two distinct elements. Because Jesus' Spirit is God's Spirit, His soul unified with the Holy Spirit makes Him fully God, His soul unified with His body makes Him fully human.
 
Biblican said:
The orthodox doctrine of the early church was that Jesus had a beginning at some point in infinity, but that He always existed within the Father as the "essence of His being." This was also taught by Wesley, Calvin and others. By the third and fourth councils you had to believe that Jesus was twice begotten, once prior to His incarnation and then again through Mary or you were anathema or cursed. If Jesus did not have a beginning then we do not have a Father and Son but two gods and we have jumped the fence into polytheism. What God begat was Jesus' soul or person. In order for Jesus to take our sins upon His soul His soul would have to be a distinct begotten entity from the Father. The word begotten is used because any one who is birthed must come from a preexisting substance. Jesus' soul was begotten from the pre-existing substance of the Father's Spirit. Then unified with the Holy Spirit as we see happening in Isaiah 42:1. Then Jesus unified with the Holy Spirit was placed in Mary's womb. Jesus' life source was the Holy Spirit and not the breath that gave life to Adam. Paul recognized this distinction in I Corinthians 15:45 - And so it is written, the first Adam was made a living soul. The last Adam was made a quickening (life giving) Spirit. This is very important because the life in Jesus' blood Leviticus 17:11 is capable of giving us eternal life The breath of life that animated Adam was never intended nor capable of enabling the soul to ascend to heaven after the death of the body. Thus a new source of animation had to be imparted to humans and that is the Holy Spirit of eternal life from the Father, which is released to us through faith in the atonement.
Jesus' Spirit is the Holy Spirit which is God's Spirit and the Spirit has no beginning, but Jesus' soul did. It's interesting to note that the word for soul is used in association with God and Jesus but never the Holy Spirit. Soul and Spirit are two distinct elements. Because Jesus' Spirit is God's Spirit, His soul unified with the Holy Spirit makes Him fully God, His soul unified with His body makes Him fully human.
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There is simply no need to believe that Jesus' soul was begotten from the pre-existing substance of the Father's Spirit. The term begotten refers to his humanity. It refers to the incarnation, not some event before Luke 1:35. I would suggest a whole new paradigm for you to explore biblically and rationally. That paradigm is simply believe in one true God just as the Jews did for thousands of years (Deut 6:4) and then believe that this one God was manifested in the flesh (1 Timothy 3:16). The Father and Son relationship and the relationship of Son to Holy Spirit and distinction have to do with the authentic humanity of Christ. This is a whole new paradigm for you and some assumptions that you consider as fact are simply not Biblical or rational.
 
Biblican said:
The orthodox doctrine of the early church was that Jesus had a beginning at some point in infinity, but that He always existed within the Father as the "essence of His being." This was also taught by Wesley, Calvin and others. By the third and fourth councils you had to believe that Jesus was twice begotten, once prior to His incarnation and then again through Mary or you were anathema or cursed. If Jesus did not have a beginning then we do not have a Father and Son but two gods and we have jumped the fence into polytheism. What God begat was Jesus' soul or person. In order for Jesus to take our sins upon His soul His soul would have to be a distinct begotten entity from the Father. The word begotten is used because any one who is birthed must come from a preexisting substance. Jesus' soul was begotten from the pre-existing substance of the Father's Spirit. Then unified with the Holy Spirit as we see happening in Isaiah 42:1. Then Jesus unified with the Holy Spirit was placed in Mary's womb. Jesus' life source was the Holy Spirit and not the breath that gave life to Adam. Paul recognized this distinction in I Corinthians 15:45 - And so it is written, the first Adam was made a living soul. The last Adam was made a quickening (life giving) Spirit. This is very important because the life in Jesus' blood Leviticus 17:11 is capable of giving us eternal life The breath of life that animated Adam was never intended nor capable of enabling the soul to ascend to heaven after the death of the body. Thus a new source of animation had to be imparted to humans and that is the Holy Spirit of eternal life from the Father, which is released to us through faith in the atonement.
Jesus' Spirit is the Holy Spirit which is God's Spirit and the Spirit has no beginning, but Jesus' soul did. It's interesting to note that the word for soul is used in association with God and Jesus but never the Holy Spirit. Soul and Spirit are two distinct elements. Because Jesus' Spirit is God's Spirit, His soul unified with the Holy Spirit makes Him fully God, His soul unified with His body makes Him fully human.
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Christ is the Spirit (2 Cor 3:17).

Hope that helps.
 
Photine said:
Christ is the Spirit (2 Cor 3:17).

Hope that helps.
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Yes, Jesus' Spirit is God's Holy Spirit. That's how the apostles taught it. As a man Jesus had a soul, a body and a Spirit. The body came by Mary, His soul/person was begotten from the Father and His Spirit is the Holy Spirit. God has designed the spirit to operate with the soul/person and Jesus' soul is inseparable with His Holy Spirit.
 
Andreas said:
There is simply no need to believe that Jesus' soul was begotten from the pre-existing substance of the Father's Spirit. The term begotten refers to his humanity. It refers to the incarnation, not some event before Luke 1:35. I would suggest a whole new paradigm for you to explore biblically and rationally. That paradigm is simply believe in one true God just as the Jews did for thousands of years (Deut 6:4) and then believe that this one God was manifested in the flesh (1 Timothy 3:16). The Father and Son relationship and the relationship of Son to Holy Spirit and distinction have to do with the authentic humanity of Christ. This is a whole new paradigm for you and some assumptions that you consider as fact are simply not Biblical or rational.
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The early church thought it was Biblical and rational. Calvin taught it and so did Wesley and they were merely teaching what was mandated by the councils. Jesus pre-existed, as Jesus said He came down from where He was before. If He always existed without a beginning (and I am taking about His soul, not His Spirit) then we do not have a Father and Son, but two co-eternal gods and that is polytheism. God was manifested in the flesh in His Son because the two are unified by the One Holy Spirit that is God's Spirit.
 
Photine said:
Nope.

Christ IS the Spirit (2 Cor 3:17).

Hope that helps!
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As a man Jesus had a soul and a spirit in a body. When you study how the original languages use the words for soul and spirit, then we see that they are two distinct elements. The soul is not the spirit and the spirit is not the soul.
 
Biblican said:
As a man Jesus had a soul and a spirit in a body. When you study how the original languages use the words for soul and spirit, then we see that they are two distinct elements. The soul is not the spirit and the spirit is not the soul.
Click to expand...

Christ is the Spirit (2 Cor 3:17).

2 Corinthians 3:17-18
17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.

2 Corinthians 4:3-5
3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. 4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 5 For what we preach is not ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus’ sake.

2 Corinthians 3:14-16
14 But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. 15 Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. 16 But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.

Deal with it.
 
Biblican said:
As a man Jesus had a soul and a spirit in a body. When you study how the original languages use the words for soul and spirit, then we see that they are two distinct elements. The soul is not the spirit and the spirit is not the soul.
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Jesus is the one true God.

He is also a genuine man - HUMAN BODY, SOUL, and SPIRIT.

Anything less and you have a doctrine that doesn't teach Jesus was a real man and that is unbiblical.
 
Andreas said:
Jesus is the one true God.

He is also a genuine man - HUMAN BODY, SOUL, and SPIRIT.

Anything less and you have a doctrine that doesn't teach Jesus was a real man and that is unbiblical.
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Of course Jesus was a real man. he was constructed just like any man. The only difference is that His Spirit is God's Holy Spirit. That is what makes Him "God" and Divine. His Spirit unified with His soul/person makes Him fully God and His soul unified with His body makes Him fully man. According as to how humans are constructed that is the only way to explain it. However Jesus is not God the Father they are two distinct persons unified by one Spirit. There is no fourth element found anywhere in scripture that unifies them, other than the Holy Spirit.
 
Photine said:
Christ is the Spirit (2 Cor 3:17).

2 Corinthians 3:17-18
17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.

2 Corinthians 4:3-5
3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. 4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 5 For what we preach is not ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus’ sake.

2 Corinthians 3:14-16
14 But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. 15 Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. 16 But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.

Deal with it.
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Do some more research and you will see that they are referring to the Holy Spirit which is Jesus' Spirit.
 
Biblican said:
Of course Jesus was a real man. he was constructed just like any man. The only difference is that His Spirit is God's Holy Spirit. That is what makes Him "God" and Divine. His Spirit unified with His soul/person makes Him fully God and His soul unified with His body makes Him fully man. According as to how humans are constructed that is the only way to explain it. However Jesus is not God the Father they are two distinct persons unified by one Spirit. There is no fourth element found anywhere in scripture that unifies them, other than the Holy Spirit.
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"Father into thy hands I commend my spirit", said Christ. Unless your view of Christ is that he has a fully human body, soul and spirit then your view is that he is somewhat less that a genuine man.

Rather, there is only one true God, who is Spirit, as to his essence or nature. Jesus is fully human - body, soul, and spirit. His human spirit is permanently and inseparably fused with his divine Spirit. Christ, fully man and fully God. Not a hybrid, nor a mixing into a unique creature. He was God existing as a genuine man, perceiving Himself as a man, within the context and scope of his humanity. Simultaneously, God continued to exist as omnipotent and everywhere present Spirit as He always has.
 
Andreas said:
"Father into thy hands I commend my spirit", said Christ. Unless your view of Christ is that he has a fully human body, soul and spirit then your view is that he is somewhat less that a genuine man.

Rather, there is only one true God, who is Spirit, as to his essence or nature. Jesus is fully human - body, soul, and spirit. His human spirit is permanently and inseparably fused with his divine Spirit. Christ, fully man and fully God. Not a hybrid, nor a mixing into a unique creature. He was God existing as a genuine man, perceiving Himself as a man, within the context and scope of his humanity. Simultaneously, God continued to exist as omnipotent and everywhere present Spirit as He always has.
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According to the original Greek, the soul and the spirit are not the same thing. When you say Jesus' human spirit is fused with His divine spirit, it is more correct to say that His Spirit is fused with His soul. We do not have two spirits, just one spirit and one soul. Both words are associated with Jesus' construction so to speak. I keep my definition confined to the usage of the words in the scripture that describe Jesus' construction as a human. He had a body, soul and spirit. His Spirit is the Holy Spirit and His soul was begotten to take our sins. There are no other words in scripture associated with Jesus physiology.
 
Andreas said:
"Father into thy hands I commend my spirit", said Christ. Unless your view of Christ is that he has a fully human body, soul and spirit then your view is that he is somewhat less that a genuine man.

Rather, there is only one true God, who is Spirit, as to his essence or nature. Jesus is fully human - body, soul, and spirit. His human spirit is permanently and inseparably fused with his divine Spirit. Christ, fully man and fully God. Not a hybrid, nor a mixing into a unique creature. He was God existing as a genuine man, perceiving Himself as a man, within the context and scope of his humanity. Simultaneously, God continued to exist as omnipotent and everywhere present Spirit as He always has.
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Jesus AIN'T full human.

God AIN'T a man.

Is there ANYONE on this forum with the TRUTH?
 
Biblican said:
According to the original Greek, the soul and the spirit are not the same thing. When you say Jesus' human spirit is fused with His divine spirit, it is more correct to say that His Spirit is fused with His soul. We do not have two spirits, just one spirit and one soul. Both words are associated with Jesus' construction so to speak. I keep my definition confined to the usage of the words in the scripture that describe Jesus' construction as a human. He had a body, soul and spirit. His Spirit is the Holy Spirit and His soul was begotten to take our sins. There are no other words in scripture associated with Jesus physiology.
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I agree that the soul and spirit are not the same thing. This is a reason why I say that Jesus has a human body, soul and spirit. If you REPLACE the human spirit with the Holy Spirit, then how do you say that he is fully human? I'm not comfortable with a component of his humanity being REPLACED and still saying He is fully human. How do you get away with that in all honesty?

Do you chuck Luke 23:46 out? "Father into thy hands I commend by pneuma (spirit)". He didn't say "soul".
 
Photine said:
CHRIST is being referred to as the Holy Spirit. Learn how to read.
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Yes and Jesus is constructed as two soul and Spirit. His Spirit is the Holy Spirit. The spirit in anyone is unified with the soul to the point of being indistinguishable from one another, yet they are two distinct elements.
 
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