1 Jn 5:2. Jesus=God

“Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the price of the land for yourself? 4 While it remained, was it not your own? And after it was sold, was it not in your own control? Why have you conceived this thing in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.” (Ac 5:3–4).

Three identified as God.
Three who? Peter was referring to himself and the other apostles as ministers of God. Not three identified God... Notice the words...You have not lied to men but to God... Where are three identified in that passage?
Only within the Godhead can one being refer to the other as “His God” and still maintain equality, regardless of who has authority. This is due to relationship.
That is due to foolishness Gods do not have Gods. You cannot be equal to someone who has authority over you.
John 20:17 "Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'" Jesus returned to his God and to our God, he returned to his Father and our Father.
Yes, you seem to be surprised, did you not know this?
But who did he return to?
His father who is also his God, you just posted it.
Who is Jesus' Father? Who is Jesus' God?
If you do not know this then God has not revealed it to you. Not everyone has this knowledge...
This is because of the relationship between Jesus and God vs. humanity and God.
You are trying to make excuses because of your lack of knowledge.
If Jesus is a created being should have addressed it as our God and our Father.
There is no difference you are grasping at straws. God is our God just as he is Jesus' God, and our father just as he is Jesus' father.
Jesus said this because He is God’s Son by nature vs. humanity being God’s children by creation.
You are not making any sense. We, believers, are partakers of the divine nature, born again of the spirit. not of humanity.
And? How does this answer the question?
it answers the question you just don't like the answer.
Ok let's go to Jn 17. If this is etched in stone, what does this make Jesus in John 1:1? If the Father is the only true God, and Jesus is not God in Jn 17, that would make Jesus a false god in John 1:1. Reconcile,.
If you make Jesus a God then he is a false God. You cannot make Jesus God. Jesus is the son of God and that is final. If you make Jesus God then he becomes his own father.
So much wrong with this, but for starters, where in Scripture does it state that the Father would appear. Hint, only the Son appears.
Where does the scripture say only the son appears? Please explain how many Stephen saw here.
55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.
57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord,

Wrong that is not what the verse reads.
...To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ: (2 Pe 1:1).
In the original text 'our' is before God and Savior.
It does not change anything since you already agreed that Jesus has a God to who he ascended. And since we have only one God Jesus cannot be God unless you are saying Jesus ascended to himself..
 
Plural intensive—singular meaning = Elohym governs a singular verb or adjective when referring to the God of Israel, but grammatically plural elohim, takes a plural or singular verb or adjective when used of pagan divinities. The name Elohym is unique to Hebraic thinking, and occurs only in Hebrew and in no other ancient Semitic language. I don't believe it could be translated into Greek and maintain a plural intensive syntax and remain singular in meaning.

I agree we have to see how the word is used.
  • SHEMA
  • Deuteronomy 6:4 “Hear, O Israel: The Lord [YHWH} our God [Elohim], the Lord is one [Ehad]!”
  • This is part of the Shema, which was recited by the Jews twice a day, one in the morning and once in the evening. This confession of monotheism does not preclude the biblical doctrine of the Trinity. God is in plural form “Elohim” and implies the Trinity and “one” “ehad” implies unity.
  • “Ehad” means a united one; Adam and Eve were one “ehad” flesh. Our church is one “ehad” church.
  • If Moses wanted to state that God is a singular God he would of used “yahid” which means singular one as in one chair, or one table.
  • The Jews of the Old Testament were reciting their creed which spoke volumes of the Trinity.
  • [Plurality and unity of one]
  • Deuteronomy 6:4 “Hear, O Israel: The Lord [YHWH} our God [Elohim] [plurality], the Lord is one [Ehad] [unity of one]!”

False doctrine to the point of shameful manipulation of Hebrew. This is nonsense on the same level as JW watchtower.

7K or 70K has no bearing if we find verses where God refers to Himself as a plurality. Nothing in the verses indicates that God is speaking to anyone else. You are reading into the verse what is not there.

The bottom line is that the verse doesn't mention the Trinity or plurality. Again, it is shameful to force your doctrine where the text isn't plainly teaching it.

For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; (Is 9:6).
Child = humanity born of Mary
Son= divine given by the Father.
Notice before the incarnation Jesus is identified as the Son.

First comes mention of a child born in the actual text, then Son. Please read context, not your narrative.

According to you this is erroneous? Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, (Mt 28:19).
It's very clear Jesus stated that there exist 3 individual.

3 Individuals? Wow. Many Trinitarians don't say "individuals" because that strongly implies three gods.

Let's apply your theory of modalism to the text..

Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father [that Me] and of the Son [Also Me and of the Holy Spirit [The spiritual me], (Mt 28:19).

The Apostles always baptized IN THE NAME OF JESUS? Do you need all those scripture examples, or do you have them? All the fullness of the Godhead dwells in him bodily (Colossians 2:9)

And I will pray the Father [pray to myself], and He [ that's me]will give you another Helper [which is me]...(Jn 14:16).
1When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God [saw Himself] descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. 17 And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son [Jesus speaking], in whom I am well pleased.” (Mt 3:16–17).

Jesus was with them in the flesh was he not? The coming of the Holy Spirit is Jesus coming in Spirit. See JOHN 14:18.... I WILL NOT LEAVE YOU AS ORPHANS, I WILL COME TO YOU.

Actually, in Hebrew, the term ABI 'AD means "father of the age". The Greek LXX, therefore, translates the phrase as 'father of the coming age' (PATHR TOU MELLONTOS AIWNOS), and the Latin Vulgate follows with "pater futuri saeculi", ie, 'father of the world to come'.
Rather Jesus is being called "Father of Everlasting' vs Everlasting Father.

You've got the Trinitarian talking points down, I'll give you that. Think man. What difference does it make where you insert "everlasting". He is still the Father, and you categorically said that the Bible doesn't call him Father. Well, Isaiah 9:6 does regardless of how you translate the adjective "everlasting" or "eternal".

No it does not. Read it again. Who will be called Jesus's son. = "He who overcomes"
Overcoming is a necessary condition to the Jesus' son.

So, what's your point? To be Jesus' son means He is their Father. Do you have two Fathers in heaven?

Now you are omniscient, you understand what the Apostles understood, and this information is not recorded anywhere. And so what, how does this prove that the Father, Son and HS are not three separate individuals?

I'm not following on your omniscient comment. We don't need omniscience, we just need to read the many places in the Bible where the apostles baptized and just see what they did and said. Do you need the scriptures? You seem unfamiliar with the Jesus name baptism scriptures.
 
Very Good there is one God in the sentence..."So God The Father sent The Son who is our Lord, God, and Savior."
johnny guitar said:
So God The Father sent The Son who is our Lord, God, and Savior.

Therefore the person God the father sent is not God. You just agreed that Jesus is not God.

How can you be so blind as to not see all the scriptures that teach Jesus is God? Are you that miserable in your personal life that you have to fight against plain scripture day, after day, after day. What motivates you to do this?

Jesus is both God and man. Why can't you at least be open to the possibility that God is omnipotent and able to do something like that?
 
You are still missing he point. Scripture as a whole states that the Father, Son, and HS as God raised Jesus from the dead. So passive or active does not matter. Your verse is included in 'Scripture as a whole.' But the whole of Scripture does not fit into your idea.
Sorry but no I am not, for that is not true and I have already proven that you are misunderstanding and misinterpreting those passages that you think are saying that Jesus restored his own life back from the dead.

You cannot say that scripture as a whole proves your ideas when you have contradictions in many of those scriptures like you do and you have many of them also.
 
You are still missing he point. Scripture as a whole states that the Father, Son, and HS as God raised Jesus from the dead. So passive or active does not matter. Your verse is included in 'Scripture as a whole.' But the whole of Scripture does not fit into your idea.
Exactly .

John 2:19
Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”
 
it is shameful to force your doctrine where the text isn't plainly teaching it.

That's all trins do.

There ARE no plain trinity scriptures in the Bible, so they have a bunch of verses they try to force that false doctrine into..
 
The Apostles always baptized IN THE NAME OF JESUS? Do you need all those scripture examples, or do you have them?

Very true. At NO point in the Bible does anyone get baptized in the name of the trinity, ONLY in the Name of Jesus.
 
How can you be so blind as to not see all the scriptures that teach Jesus is God?
How am I blind? I see it is written in the scripture that Jesus is the son of God. Nowhere is it written that Jesus is God.
All of the scriptures say Jesus is the son of God. . It would be confusing for the scriptures to say Jesus is the son of God and mean Jesus is God.
Are you that miserable in your personal life that you have to fight against plain scripture day, after day, after day. What motivates you to do this?
Please show me the scripture that I am fighting against that says Jesus is God.
Jesus is both God and man.
There is no scripture gat says that Jesus is God and man.
Why can't you at least be open to the possibility that God is omnipotent and able to do something like that?
Because the scripture does not say that. You have opened up yourself to believe something that the scripture does not say and you are angry at me because I do not open up myself to such nonsense.
 
Exactly .

John 2:19
Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”
Nope, for if you read on to verse 22, John right after this, uses the passive voice verb "egerthe" to speak of Jesus being raised from the dead and I think that even you with your trin bias should be able to understand that Jesus cannot be both passive and active in his resurrection from the dead.

Now then, what did Jesus actually say and what did he not say?

He never said that he would restore his own life back into his body but only that if they killed him, he would raise his body up again and there is a far cry from one raising his body up and actually restoring his own life back into his body.


Therefore, John and his disciples didn't take Jesus to mean that he would restore his life back into his body but only that after God did, he would raise that body up that they attempted to destroy.
 
How am I blind? I see it is written in the scripture that Jesus is the son of God. Nowhere is it written that Jesus is God.

John 1:1, 8:24, Jude 5, Heb 1:2,8, Titus 2:13, 1 Cor 10:4, 2 Pet 1:1, Rev 22:13, 2:23, Etc.

You're blind.
 
He never said that he would restore his own life back into his body but only that if they killed him, he would raise his body up again and there is a far cry from one raising his body up and actually restoring his own life back into his body.

You're fully possessed by Satan. SAD.
 
Last edited:
Nope, for if you read on to verse 22, John right after this, uses the passive voice verb "egerthe" to speak of Jesus being raised from the dead and I think that even you with your trin bias should be able to understand that Jesus cannot be both passive and active in his resurrection from the dead.

Now then, what did Jesus actually say and what did he not say?

He never said that he would restore his own life back into his body but only that if they killed him, he would raise his body up again and there is a far cry from one raising his body up and actually restoring his own life back into his body.


Therefore, John and his disciples didn't take Jesus to mean that he would restore his life back into his body but only that after God did, he would raise that body up that they attempted to destroy.
Sorry but I will go with Jesus words and authority not yours. He said I ( Jesus ) will raise it ( His body ) from the dead after 3 days.
 
Exactly .

John 2:19
Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”
Your assessment is faulty...Jesus received the command to raise himself from his father.
John 10:18
No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
 
Your assessment is faulty...Jesus received the command to raise himself from his father.
John 10:18
No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
No Jesus said it therefor I believe Him and not you .
 
Sorry but I will go with Jesus words and authority not yours. He said I ( Jesus ) will raise it ( His body ) from the dead after 3 days.
John 10:18
No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
 
No Jesus said it therefor I believe Him and not you .
Jesus said he received the commandment to do it...you should believe that also
John 10:18
No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
 
Jesus said he received the commandment to do it...you should believe that also
John 10:18
No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
Context is John 2,
 
How am I blind? I see it is written in the scripture that Jesus is the son of God. Nowhere is it written that Jesus is God.
All of the scriptures say Jesus is the son of God. . It would be confusing for the scriptures to say Jesus is the son of God and mean Jesus is God.

Please show me the scripture that I am fighting against that says Jesus is God.

There is no scripture gat says that Jesus is God and man.

Because the scripture does not say that. You have opened up yourself to believe something that the scripture does not say and you are angry at me because I do not open up myself to such nonsense.

Are you familiar at all with Congressman Adam Schiff? He was a high ranking democrat congressman that constantly lied to the American people about Trump collusion with Russia. To this day he is in complete denial of all his misdeeds and outright lies. It is like there is nothing that can be shown him on video or on paper. no matter how obvious, that he would confess to his wrongdoing. I said all that to say this to you. I feel the same with you regarding the deity of Christ. I truly feel if Jesus showed up at your doorstep with a red shirt saying I AM GOD, you would say something like, "Yes, but god with a little g". I don't think that anything could have been written in scripture, no matter what, in which you would not twist it in some way to dismiss his deity. How does someone become like this?
 
Back
Top