Romans 6

It's not my intent to be toxic, and I'm sorry if I come across that way. I am not combatting you. I am looking for areas of agreement, such as the need for rebirth, being a new creation, and in this OP now whether what a reborn person does is righteous. I'd like to know if we actually agree, and if not then exactly where.
A new born is righteous. His faith is counted, (credited, reckoned, imputed).to him as righteousness. It is a work of grace. Romans 4 explains this very well. Deeds done are done in righteousness if done for the glory of God, and as a result of faith, because they are done by someone deemed righteous because of their faith. If deeds are done in order to cooperate with God in order to have righteousness infused in us for deeds we do to aid in salvation, then they are simply filthy rags because that would would be adding to what Jesus fully completed on the cross. There is nothing man can do to merit one iota toward salvation. Even our faith is a gift of God's grace. Jesus is the Author and Perfecter of our faith.

CCC
2010 Since the initiative belongs to God in the order of grace, no one can merit the initial grace of forgiveness and justification, at the beginning of conversion. Moved by the Holy Spirit and by charity, we can then merit for ourselves and for others the graces needed for our sanctification, for the increase of grace and charity, and for the attainment of eternal life.

To say that the rcc teaches salvation by faith alone, grace alone, and Christ alone is simply not true. There is a long list Catholics MUST believe and do for salvation. And that is a different gospel than the apostles taught!
 
A new born is righteous. His faith is counted, (credited, reckoned, imputed).to him as righteousness. It is a work of grace. Romans 4 explains this very well. Deeds done are done in righteousness if done for the glory of God, and as a result of faith, because they are done by someone deemed righteous because of their faith. If deeds are done in order to cooperate with God in order to have righteousness infused in us for deeds we do to aid in salvation, then they are simply filthy rags because that would would be adding to what Jesus fully completed on the cross. There is nothing man can do to merit one iota toward salvation. Even our faith is a gift of God's grace. Jesus is the Author and Perfecter of our faith.

CCC
2010 Since the initiative belongs to God in the order of grace, no one can merit the initial grace of forgiveness and justification, at the beginning of conversion. Moved by the Holy Spirit and by charity, we can then merit for ourselves and for others the graces needed for our sanctification, for the increase of grace and charity, and for the attainment of eternal life.

To say that the rcc teaches salvation by faith alone, grace alone, and Christ alone is simply not true. There is a long list Catholics MUST believe and do for salvation. And that is a different gospel than the apostles taught!
Amen!!!!!!!!!
Just like in justification, the Roman Catholic religions' teaching does not express that Roman Catholic's have to cease from their own working, and to accept in faith the promise that God would give them life in ChrIst, so now, in the matter of their sanctification, their first need is to cease from striving themselves to establish the connection with Christ more firmly, and to allow God to do it. "God is faithful, by whom you were called into the fellowship of His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord." (1 Cor. 1:9)
What Roman Catholics need to have is a simple faith in the fact that establishing us in Christ, day by day, is God's work - a work that He delights to do, in spite of all our weakness and unfaithfulness, if they will but trust HIM for it.
 
The point is not that it's said but that it becomes the default when free will and co-operation with Gods grace aren't observed as part of the relationship.
That might be the Catholic mindset but being a new creation means having a change towards sin. What about the Catholic who cooperates and still commits sin? Read Romans 12:1-2.
 
Amen!!!!!!!!!
Just like in justification, the Roman Catholic religions' teaching does not express that Roman Catholic's have to cease from their own working, and to accept in faith the promise that God would give them life in ChrIst, so now, in the matter of their sanctification, their first need is to cease from striving themselves to establish the connection with Christ more firmly, and to allow God to do it. "God is faithful, by whom you were called into the fellowship of His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord." (1 Cor. 1:9)
What Roman Catholics need to have is a simple faith in the fact that establishing us in Christ, day by day, is God's work - a work that He delights to do, in spite of all our weakness and unfaithfulness, if they will but trust HIM for it.
Excellent response! Catholics need to "let go and let God"!
 
How does one get 'in Christ' without the RCC, the Pope, Mary, water baptism, and the eucharist?

I had you and the other non-RC posters in mind. I am interested to know how you read Paul's words here in Romans 6.
I know how a Catholic understands them, but I don't know how you understand them.
The deeds that you do, as a person alive in Christ...are they righteous deeds? And are the collection of these deeds considered by God as righteousness?

This is not a trick, either. It's a question. What would you write about these lines if you were writing a commentary

In Romans 6, we read that a person who is in Christ and the Spirit will perform righteous deeds:

11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. 13 Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness. 14 For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.

15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? By no means! 16 Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you have come to obey from your heart the pattern of teaching that has now claimed your allegiance. 18 You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.

Does anyone deny that a person who is "alive to God in Christ Jesus" produces deeds as fruits of the Spirit that are considered by God to be righteous and the obedience to the Spirit to be righteousness?

In Romans 6, we read that a person who is in Christ and the Spirit will perform righteous deeds:

11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. 13 Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness. 14 For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.

15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? By no means! 16 Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you have come to obey from your heart the pattern of teaching that has now claimed your allegiance. 18 You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.

Does anyone deny that a person who is "alive to God in Christ Jesus" produces deeds as fruits of the Spirit that are considered by God to be righteous and the obedience to the Spirit to be righteousness?

How does one get 'in Christ' without the RCC, the Pope, Mary, water baptism, and the eucharist?
The OP used scripture. You can't give an educated answer?
The foundation of the OP is important; otherwise, one could think they are 'in Christ' when they are not 'in Christ'.
hmm, "the foundation"? the op used scripture!
Post a link to where any of us non-rc's have ever said sinning was ok. Or that we have a license to sin.



So says the pot to the kettle. Speak for yourself in this matter. You do a lot of dishing out, but when called on it, back peddle.
Can a NC commit adultery and still go to heaven?
 
That might be the Catholic mindset but being a new creation means having a change towards sin. What about the Catholic who cooperates and still commits sin? Read Romans 12:1-2.
Romans 12 bears out what I stated. Co operating with grace is choosing to obey Gods Will. Co operating with grace and choosing to sin are mutually exclusive.
 
The thing is that without recognising free will and our need to co-operate with Gods grace, the default is a licence to sin mentality.
That's an RCC talking point not based in reality.
It's a reality shown daily that people call themselves saved and yet continue to sin without guilt or repentance.
You mean like the C and E Catholics?
Even in the uncharitable exchanges here with people who claim to know the bible down pat and therefore know what charity means, yet do the opposite without guilt or repentance.
Like the C and E Catholics?
 

The thing is that without recognising free will and our need to co-operate with Gods grace, the default is a licence to sin mentality.
... Which 1st John describes as a sign one is not saved in the first place.
It's a reality shown daily that people call themselves saved and yet continue to sin without guilt or repentance.
The Bible says such a person is not saved.
 
Yes. Adultery isn't an unforgivable sin. Does that make it ok? Of course not.

David was a murderer and and adulterer, yet he was still a man after God's own heart.
Ok, so nc CAN commit adultery, live in it etc and STILL go to heaven. Thank you for explaining your beliefs.
 
Adultery is an Unforgivable sin?
Oh it is only sexually immoral priests who can be forgiven, is that it? Oh a lot of RCs are living in adultery because their annulments are really just divorces. I mean they didn't know what marriage meant. One RC I know didn't know 3 times.
 
Why do you feel the need to lie about what is said. I NOWHERE said one can 'live in it'.....one born from above will NOT live in it.
Oh you must repent? You can't sin like that and still go to heaven, ok. Not all ncs are the same.
 
Back
Top