1 Jn 5:2. Jesus=God

[Newbirth]

You are denying Titus 2:13.
Only ONE Savior.

I am not denying anything except that Jesus is God. You are claiming that Jesus is your God therefore your God was born...

 

[Photine]

I am not denying anything except that Jesus is God. You are claiming that Jesus is your God therefore your God was born...

God ALONE is our God and Savior.

 

[Newbirth]

Isa 44:24
Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself

Are you calling God a liar?

Nope, you are posting an OT passage. The NT reveals that God made all things by his son...
Hebrews 1:2
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

 

[Photine]

Nope, you are posting an OT passage. The NT reveals that God made all things by his son...
Hebrews 1:2
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

So the OT is wrong and God was lying.

 

[Newbirth]

God ALONE is our God and Savior.

Nope...You are relying on what has been hid that is the OT. Read what is revealed in the NT
1 John 4:14
And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

 

[Newbirth]

So the OT is wrong and God was lying.

No the OT was written in a way to hide from the wise and prudent.
Matthew 11:25
At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

 

[Photine]

Nope...You are relying on what has been hid that is the OT. Read what is revealed in the NT
1 John 4:14
And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

So this is a lie:

Hosea 13:4
Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me.

And this:

Isaiah 43:11
I, even I, am the LORD, and apart from me there is no savior.

 

[Photine]

No the OT was written in a way to hide from the wise and prudent.

So basically, the OT is full of lies, and the NT reveals the truth. That's what you're implying.

 

[Photine]

Isa 44:24
Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself

Heb 1:2
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

These two Scriptures reveal that Jesus is "God Himself". Both OT and NT are true. NEITHER are a lie.

 

[Newbirth]

So this is a lie:

Hosea 13:4
Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me.

God sending his son to be the saviour of the world does not make God, not the saviour. The son works for his father.
John 4:34
Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

And this:

Isaiah 43:11
I, even I, am the LORD, and apart from me there is no savior.

The son is not apart from the father seeing that he does the work his father sent him to do...
John 8:29
And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.

try as you may you cannot deny that Jesus is the son of God...and we do not have two Gods. Therefore Jesus is not God.

 

[Newbirth]

Isa 44:24
Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself

Bro the OT is still hidden from you because of your pride.

Heb 1:2
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

The fact that God has a son is proof that the son is not God.

These two Scriptures reveal that Jesus is "God Himself". Both OT and NT are true. NEITHER are a lie.

No, they don't say Jesus is God himself, you have an understanding problem. You are reading God has spoken by his son (Jesus) and saying God is Jesus.

 

[Newbirth]

So basically, the OT is full of lies, and the NT reveals the truth. That's what you're implying.

Nope never said that and never implied that. Jesus said...
Luke 10:21
In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.

 

[Photine]

God sending his son to be the saviour of the world does not make God, not the saviour.

Evasion of Titus 2:13 & 2 Pet 1:1 which call Jesus "Our God and Savior". Only God is "our God and Savior".

 

[Photine]

Bro the OT is still hidden from you because of your pride.

The fact that God has a son is proof that the son is not God.

No, they don't say Jesus is God himself, you have an understanding problem. You are reading God has spoken by his son (Jesus) and saying God is Jesus.

The OT disproves your claims that Jesus is not God. That's why you call it a book of lies.

The book of Isaiah proves you are of the darkness and of the liar.

Isaiah 8:20
To the law and to the testimony [the Tanakh]: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

 

[Photine]

Bro the OT is still hidden from you because of your pride.

The fact that God has a son is proof that the son is not God.

No, they don't say Jesus is God himself, you have an understanding problem. You are reading God has spoken by his son (Jesus) and saying God is Jesus.

Evasion of Isaiah 44:24 which says God ALONE, BY HIMSELF, made the world.

You claim the NT contradicts the OT.

Similar to muslims.

 

[Yahweh will increase]

Your assessment is faulty...Jesus received the command to raise himself from his father.
John 10:18
No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

The commandment was not that he would raise himself at all however but rather that if he would of his own will, lay down his life in death, then he would receive it back again from God because of his obedience to lay it down first.

This is much the same as what God commands us also, that if we lose our life for Jesus and the gospel, we will save it by doing so and our authority on it is the same as was his, it is God's word on it, for if God said it, that settles it.

This is all that Jesus was telling us in John 10:17-18 and not at all that he would raise himself from the dead like many falsely teach and believe.

 

[johnny guitar]

But Jesus is your God is he not? Therefore your God was born

Therefore more STRAWMEN.

 

[Towerwatchman]

The word in the Hebrew text is Elohim the same word used to make Moses a God. I have explained this many times. If Jesus is God then Moses is also God

The word is Elohim. same as he made Moses.

Totally off topic, I quoted the book of Hebrews written in Greek and you counter with the Hebrew language?
One more time.
But to the Son He says: “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom. 9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.” (Heb 1:8–9)
Recap. The Father called the Son God and then said 'your God' has done X.

God was never born a child

Wrong.
Pay close attention to Hebrews "But to the Son He says: “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;"
14 Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel. (Is 7:14). "Immanuel" =God with us.

What do you mean by divine?

God

What incarnation? there is no mention of incarnation in the scripture. Incarnation is about Rama and Vishnu. Are you a Hindu?

So . incarnation is a word not found in the Bible. Neither is omniscient, immutable, or omnipresent.
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. (Jn 1:14).

Where does the scripture say that? As far as the scripture goes the beginning is referring to this world. What rubbish are you speaking? If believers can become eternal how can you imagine in your minute brain that the father cannot be eternal?

No it does not. And referring to this world that occurs in vs 4. Before vs 4 Jesus existed with God in the beginning. And any case Father of Spirits equates to Father of created spirits. Thus not an eternal tittle. Why. Cannot be called Father of spirits if there exist no spirits.

Since sons come from their fathers if he erased everything he created then the son would be erased also. You are not making any sense. Where do you suppose sons come from? Are they not offsprings of their father?

Thankyou. You agree if everything outside of God is created, then there was a time when God was not a Father. One cannot be the only being in existence and hold the title 'Father'. Its the same as a married bachelor.

By giving them eternal life. Do you actually think before you type? 1 Cor 15
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

I think you should have some one proof read your post, before you upload.
This is my question. How does an immortal being bring into existence an immoral being?
What you posted was a created mortal being who has been given eternal life. There is a difference. Let's dumb it down. How does an immortal being who has always existed create a being that has always existed?

That is the absence of facts, sir. The fact is there is no mention of a trinity in the scripture. You cannot deny that fact.

Absence of facts or absence of evidence =same difference. Just because X is not mentioned in Y does not prove that X does not exist. What you need is positive proof that the Trinity does not exist.

But it is not, is it? Your claim is that the God of the Bible is a trinity. If that is the case then the bible must say that.

This is simple, you don't practice what you preach. To support your points you take the subject on a contrived bunny trail. That is your MO. When you argue against something you like to set the bar so high that nothing is acceptable. 'Since Trinity is not found in the Bible then it must not exist.' The word bible or the concept of a bible is not found in the bible, are we to conclude that the bible does not exist?
The concept of the Trinity is supported by Scripture, where the Father, Son and HS are identified as God. Each with their center of self consciousness. And this conclusion comes from accumulative evidence, which is letteral and explicit, which you explain away into the abstract.

Oh yes, they are but in different words. God is almighty is he not? Omniscience=
Acts 15:18
Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
omnipotent= God gave Jesus all power
Matthew 28:18
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

omnipresent=Ps 1398 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
immutable=
Hebrews 6:18
That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:
I proved my case with evidence that shows you have no evidence to prove your case.

So based on the evidence you came to these conclusions. Following the standard you set I should not accept this as proof.

Please show us where it says God is three

How many times.
Re post.
But to the Son He says: “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom. 9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.” (Heb 1:8–9)
Father and Son identified as God.

3 But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit ...You have not lied to men but to God.” (Ac 5:3–4).
The HS identified as God.

I gave you two separate verses from different writers matt and Jn

Which you are holding in isolation to support your flawed argument. Against the backdrop of Scripture you argument fails.

Isn't this a verse out of context and in isolation...The word God is written Elohim in the Psalm, the same word god used for Moses when he made him a god/Elohim

Brush up on your Hebrew. Elohim carries the major meaning of God and minor meaning of ruler. God made Moses a ruler over Pharaoh. And this is a poor strawman. We are discussing the book of Hebrews which was written in Greek, and the three renderings of Theos in the passage carry the definite article, thus identifying all three theos as YHWH.

 

[Photine]

Elohim carries the major meaning of God and minor meaning of ruler.

Thanks

 

[Towerwatchman]

Three who? Peter was referring to himself and the other apostles as ministers of God. Not three identified God... Notice the words...You have not lied to men but to God... Where are three identified in that passage?

Ignorance or dishonesty or a combination of both. Let's dumb it down again.

But to the Son He says: “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom. 9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.” (Heb 1:8–9).

Here we have the Father who identifies Himself as YHWH [HO THEOS] calls the Son YHWH [HO THEOS]

“Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the price of the land for yourself? 4 While it remained, was it not your own? And after it was sold, was it not in your own control? Why have you conceived this thing in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.” (Ac 5:3–4).

The HS is identified as YHWH [HO THEOS}

2+1=3
BTW A verse mentioning three as God is irrelevant when the Bible identifies three as God =YHWH [HO THEOS]>

That is due to foolishness Gods do not have Gods. You cannot be equal to someone who has authority over you.

Really. Does a general have authority over a private but bother are equally human?

Yes, you seem to be surprised, did you not know this?

His father who is also his God, you just posted it.

If you do not know this then God has not revealed it to you. Not everyone has this knowledge...

You are trying to make excuses because of your lack of knowledge.

There is no difference you are grasping at straws. God is our God just as he is Jesus' God, and our father just as he is Jesus' father.

You are not making any sense. We, believers, are partakers of the divine nature, born again of the spirit. not of humanity.

Really, where in scripture did Jesus ever say 'our Father'? He always said 'My Father' We have Jesus stating 'My Father" approx 50 times, vs our father 0 when speaking of the Father.
BTW the Lord's Prayer, Jesus told His disciples to pray 'our Father'. But note, not with Him.

If you make Jesus a God then he is a false God. You cannot make Jesus God. Jesus is the son of God and that is final. If you make Jesus God then he becomes his own father.

Ignoring the question is not the same as answering it.
Again. Ok let's go to Jn 17. If this is etched in stone, what does this make Jesus in John 1:1? If the Father is the only true God, and Jesus is not God in Jn 17, that would make Jesus a false god in John 1:1. Reconcile,.

You have a problem, with this I don't.

Where does the scripture say only the son appears? Please explain how many Stephen saw here.
55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.
57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord,

There is a difference between an appearance, vs a vision. Notice only Stephen saw it, If it was an appearance everyone there would have seen it.

It does not change anything since you already agreed that Jesus has a God to who he ascended. And since we have only one God Jesus cannot be God unless you are saying Jesus ascended to himself..

But to the Son He says: “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom. 9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.” (Heb 1:8–9).

Here we have the Father who identifies Himself as YHWH [HO THEOS] calls the Son YHWH [HO THEOS]

Seems the HS disagrees with you.