Baltimore Catechism

Sorry, but you ain't exempt from critique. We all know what the ECFs said and it is all on the record. When you publicly oppose them, you bet Christ followers are going to call you out on it.
My understanding is that you are Protestant. Being Protestant you subscribe to Sola Scriptura. My understanding was that Sola Scriptura Christians believe that "When you oppose the Bible you oppose Christ." Since when do Bible only Christians believe opposing the ECF is opposing Christ? For that matter, since when do Bible only Christians even care what the ECF had to say?

Augustine also believed in the real and true presence, yet you reject that. Thus, I fail to understand your statement "When you oppose the ECF, you oppose Christ."
The irony here is that it is YOU that does not accept their authority to teach or hand on the Faith.
I accept their authority when it reflects the universal Tradition, not when it reflects their individual opinions.
No duh. He is just a dude. He is not a "Saint", he is only a witness to what was true in his locale and generation, and he is no "Doctor of the Church."
Well there you go. So why does Augustine matter here for you? I can understand why Augustine would matter for Mysterium, but not for you.
This is why what such ECFs say is totally relevant when it comes to your sect, but mean close to nothing when it comes to Apostolic Christianity.
Now you seem to be contradicting yourself.
Thank you for your confession that your sect changed the teaching. I agree with you.
How can my "sect" change what it never taught officially?
Either Augustine taught in opposition to what the Catholic Church teaches regarding babies who die, or he agreed with them.
As the Church never condemned his teaching, but never officially taught it either. How can Augustine teach in opposition to that which the Church has never defined?
They only AFFIRMED him, so we see it is you teaching in opposition to what the Catholic Church taught all the way up to Vatican II.
They neither condemned nor affirmed him. The Magisterium allowed and continues to allow Catholics to believe as they wish with regard to Augustine's teaching. What is different today is that the Magisterium has distanced itself from Augustine's teaching on unbaptized infants.
 
Unlike you, I do not put my personal opinions over defined dogmas of the Church, taught by popes, councils, saints, and doctors of the Church.
No, you attempt to make that which ISN'T officially defined defined teaching.
What you call a "rad trad" is nothing more than being Catholic and holding to the same Catholic Faith as it was taught for nearly 2000 years.
No, it is more like Catholic fundamentalism.
But you believe that the faith of millions of Catholics prior to Vatican II is "radical."
No.
I am out for Lent.
Well that is a disappointment.
 
Since when do Bible only Christians believe opposing the ECF is opposing Christ?

Who said that. You have lost the plot.

For that matter, since when do Bible only Christians even care what the ECF had to say?

What they say has great historical significance.

Thus, I fail to understand your statement "When you oppose the ECF, you oppose Christ."

Please do not post falsehoods and manufacture quotes I never posted. You will be exposed.

The irony here is that it is YOU that does not accept their authority to teach or hand on the Faith.
I accept their authority when it reflects the universal Tradition, not when it reflects their individual opinions.

As to reflecting the teaching of the Apostles and the Catholic Church, that is exactly what Augustine said he was passing on.

NO ONE in his church during his day corrected him.

Augustine explicitly stated he was NOT teaching his own opinion on the subject.

So, no, you do not accept their authority to teach or hand on the faith. All that talk from you is bluster.
Thank you for your confession that your sect changed the teaching. I agree with you.
How can my "sect" change what it never taught officially?

Augustine says otherwise.

Who would know better what the Catholic Church taught during his time? Him or you?

We all know the answer.

As the Church never condemned his teaching, but never officially taught it either.

That is not what he said.


The Magisterium allowed and continues to allow Catholics to believe as they wish with regard to Augustine's teaching.

You have already been corrected on this falsehood. I have witnessed those funeral Masses with my own eyes. You cannot deceive us here because many of us know better.

The teaching of your church today is directly opposed to what Augustine testified was the teaching of the church of his day.
 
What they say has great historical significance.
Of course they do-----just like the Deutero-Canonicals and the Apocrypha. But you do not norm anything with those, right? They are just writings of historical significance. Nothing more.
As to reflecting the teaching of the Apostles and the Catholic Church, that is exactly what Augustine said he was passing on.
Augustine believed water Baptism is necessary for salvation. Do you believe that?
NO ONE in his church during his day corrected him.
I see. Now all of a sudden, the Bible Christian wants to appeal to Tradition. I remind you sir, you don't get to do that.
Augustine explicitly stated he was NOT teaching his own opinion on the subject.
So you believe water baptism is necessary for salvation and that unbaptized infants go to Hell?
So, no, you do not accept their authority to teach or hand on the faith. All that talk from you is bluster.
But you do?
Augustine says otherwise.
Augustine also defends the real and true presence of Christ in the Eucharist. You don't care about that, so why do you care about this?
Who would know better what the Catholic Church taught during his time? Him or you?
It isn't just about what was taught in a given time and place--but whether that was picked up and handed on in the Tradition. What Augustine taught was never received as Divine Tradition. It was only a common belief that was held.
You have already been corrected on this falsehood. I have witnessed those funeral Masses with my own eyes. You cannot deceive us here because many of us know better.

The teaching of your church today is directly opposed to what Augustine testified was the teaching of the church of his day.
So is your Church. You are not bothered by that.
 
What they say has great historical significance.
Of course they do-----

Glad we could agree.


As to reflecting the teaching of the Apostles and the Catholic Church, that is exactly what Augustine said he was passing on.
Augustine believed water Baptism is necessary for salvation. Do you believe that?

Irrelevant.


NO ONE in his church during his day corrected him.
I see. Now all of a sudden, the Bible Christian wants to appeal to Tradition. I remind you sir, you don't get to do that.

I nowhere appealed to "Tradition."

Are you going to deal with the problem, or not?



Augustine explicitly stated he was NOT teaching his own opinion on the subject.
So you believe water baptism is necessary for salvation and that unbaptized infants go to Hell?

Again, you have lost the plot. Why are you avoiding processing the basic information I am providing?


So, no, you do not accept their authority to teach or hand on the faith. All that talk from you is bluster.
But you do?

No....but I am not a Roman Catholic that pretends to "accept their authority to teach or hand on the faith."

Those were your words about the ECFs, not my own.


Augustine says otherwise.
Augustine also defends the real and true presence of Christ in the Eucharist.

Man are you desperate to flee the repercussions of what this all means!


Who would know better what the Catholic Church taught during his time? Him or you?
It isn't just about what was taught in a given time and place--but whether that was picked up and handed on in the Tradition.

Augustine emphatically said that what he taught about unbaptized infants is exactly that.

Augustine himself does not consider you a Catholic.

Isn't that interesting?


What Augustine taught was never received as Divine Tradition.

Augustine said what he was teaching on was such Tradition.

Funny that the Catholic Church nowhere corrected him when he claimed the doctrine in question came right from the Apostles.

Meaning: his own church and fellow bishops did NOT believe about what he taught what you believe about it.


It was only a common belief that was held.

Augustine said the opposite.

LOL.

Do you think Augustine cannot tell the difference between a common belief during his day and the official teaching of the Catholic Church...but YOU magically can?


The teaching of your church today is directly opposed to what Augustine testified was the teaching of the church of his day.
So is your Church. You are not bothered by that.

Yes. I am not bothered by that.

OTOH, you are condemned by it. Augustine himself said so.
 
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