DEBATE: Is prayer to Mary & the saints worship?

ziapueblo said:
I only worship God.


I'm not playing word games. I've posted several Scripture verses that show those in Heaven are alive. Their earthly bodies maybe in the grave, but their spirits are alive and well.
Click to expand...
In your opinion.

You are playing word games, those in hell are also alive.
 
ziapueblo said:
I only worship God.
Click to expand...
Not if you're a Catholic.
ziapueblo said:
I'm not playing word games. I've posted several Scripture verses that show those in Heaven are alive. Their earthly bodies maybe in the grave, but their spirits are alive and well.
Click to expand...
And the "Saints" (so called) in heaven become OMNICIENT like God, so that they can Field ALL THE PRAYERS to them by deluded Catholics who actually think they're listening????
 
Bob Carabbio said:
Not if you're a Catholic.

And the "Saints" (so called) in heaven become OMNICIENT like God, so that they can Field ALL THE PRAYERS to them by deluded Catholics who actually think they're listening????
Click to expand...
The poster is orthodox not RCC. But they both have a Mary/icon problem.
 
Bob Carabbio said:
And the "Saints" (so called) in heaven become OMNICIENT like God, so that they can Field ALL THE PRAYERS to them by deluded Catholics who actually think they're listening????
Click to expand...
Scripture shows the 24 elders carrying "golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints . . ." We Orthodox just follow what the Scriptures say.
 
Bob Carabbio said:
And your reason for assuming that the "24 Elders" are your "Canonized Saints" is what????
Click to expand...
We don't believe that the 24 elders are canonized Saints, however, the text shows us that those in Heaven intercede (bringing the prayers of those on earth to God) for those on earth.
 
ziapueblo said:
We don't believe that the 24 elders are canonized Saints, however, the text shows us that those in Heaven intercede (bringing the prayers of those on earth to God) for those on earth.
Click to expand...
You're making some LARGE assumptions there, y'all

Nothing in that passage gives any reason to believe that prayers st "St. Agatha" are even related to her "Clout" in arm-twisting God so you can get your way.
 
Bob Carabbio said:
You're making some LARGE assumptions there, y'all
Click to expand...
How so? This has been a Tradition of the Church from the earliest days. This is how the early Christians interpreted these texts I've posted throughout this discussion.

Bob Carabbio said:
Nothing in that passage gives any reason to believe that prayers st "St. Agatha" are even related to her "Clout" in arm-twisting God so you can get your way.
Click to expand...
Arm twisting God, thats a good one. Never heard that one before. Am I arm twisting God when someone asks me to pray for them? Are you?
 
ziapueblo said:
How so? This has been a Tradition of the Church from the earliest days.
Click to expand...
WHich means absolutely NOTHING.
ziapueblo said:
Arm twisting God, thats a good one. Never heard that one before. Am I arm twisting God when someone asks me to pray for them? Are you?
Click to expand...
You seem to forget that before a person can be a "Canonized Saint" in the Roman Catholic system, they have to cough up TWO "verifiable miracles" as the result of prayers directed to them specifically to be considered to have enough "clout" with Father to merit the title: "SAINT".

The Bible tells Physically ALIVE Christians to pray for other PHYSICALLY ALIVE Christians. You'd know that if you ever read your Bible.
 
BornAgainRN said:
On Monday, January 23rd at 8pm EST, I will be participating in a LIVE YouTube debate with Pastor Chuck, an Eastern Orthodox priest, on whether or not prayer to Mary & the saints is worship. I will be taking the position that prayer “IS” worship. You don’t need a YouTube account to watch it, but if you have one, the live chat will be active so you can post questions for us. Please keep me in your prayers, so God can be glorified. Below is the link:
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, the debate got postponed. But it got rescheduled for Monday, February 27th at 8pm EST.
 
Bob Carabbio said:
WHich means absolutely NOTHING.
Click to expand...
Actually, it means something, "So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter."

Bob Carabbio said:
You seem to forget that before a person can be a "Canonized Saint" in the Roman Catholic system
Click to expand...
I'm not Roman Catholic so I do not know how it works in the Latin Church.

Bob Carabbio said:
The Bible tells Physically ALIVE Christians to pray for other PHYSICALLY ALIVE Christians. You'd know that if you ever read your Bible.
Click to expand...
Not according to 2 Maccabees.
 
ziapueblo said:
Actually, it means something, "So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter."
Click to expand...
I Hold to the "Traditions" that are Biblical. Catholic Traditions aren't.
ziapueblo said:
I'm not Roman Catholic so I do not know how it works in the Latin Church.
Click to expand...
Orthodox has always been closer to the truth that Rome ever was - probably why they tossed the Orthodox under the bus 500 years ago.
ziapueblo said:
Not according to 2 Maccabees.
Click to expand...
2 Maccabees isn't "Scripture", just Jewish superstitious folklore.
 
Last edited:
ziapueblo said:
Actually, it means something, "So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter."


I'm not Roman Catholic so I do not know how it works in the Latin Church.


Not according to 2 Maccabees.
Click to expand...
2 Maccabees is not scripture. The traditions are not false man made traditions.
 
balshan said:
2 Maccabees is not scripture. The traditions are not false man made traditions.
Click to expand...
2 Maccabees was in the Septuagint scriptures used by Greek-speaking Jews in the first century, and it appears in the Old Testament of the oldest Christian bibles.

It was part of the scriptures that Greek-speaking Timothy studied as a child. Those were the scriptures that Paul explicitly praised:
But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them, and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. 2 Tim 3:14-17 NKJV
Click to expand...
 
Theophilos said:
2 Maccabees was in the Septuagint scriptures used by Greek-speaking Jews in the first century, and it appears in the Old Testament of the oldest Christian bibles.

It was part of the scriptures that Greek-speaking Timothy studied as a child. Those were the scriptures that Paul explicitly praised:
Click to expand...
The Septuagint were not accepted by the Hebrew Jews as Kosher. So that is a meaningless point. Even today those books are considered 2nd level readings to scripture. Paul was a pharisee and we do not know what scriptures Tim's mother used, so wishful thinking on your part.
 
Last edited:
balshan said:
The Septuagint were accepted by the Hebrew Jews as Kosher. So that is a meaningless point. Even today those books are considered 2nd level readings to scripture. Paul was a pharisee and we do not know what scriptures Tim's mother used, so wishful thinking on your part.
Click to expand...
The Septuagint was the earliest Christian bible, and it has been in continuous use as scripture by Greek-speaking Christians since the time of the apostles.

It was the bible that Greek-speaking Timothy studied as a child. It was the bible that the Greek-speaking Bereans studied to check Paul's preaching (Acts 17:11). Greek-speaking Jewish communities were the earliest Christian converts, and they continued to use their scriptures.

The scriptures that Timothy studied as a child did not include the New Testament. The traditions and consensus of the early church was the basis of determining the New Testament canon, and the same process confirmed the Old Testament as well.
 
Theophilos said:
The Septuagint was the earliest Christian bible, and it has been in continuous use as scripture by Greek-speaking Christians since the time of the apostles.

It was the bible that Greek-speaking Timothy studied as a child. It was the bible that the Greek-speaking Bereans studied to check Paul's preaching (Acts 17:11). Greek-speaking Jewish communities were the earliest Christian converts, and they continued to use their scriptures.

The scriptures that Timothy studied as a child did not include the New Testament. The traditions and consensus of the early church was the basis of determining the New Testament canon, and the same process confirmed the Old Testament as well.
Click to expand...
That is your false opinion and I find this debate a total waste of time and as your are not an RCC you are not supposed to discuss with non RCs.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top