Free Will as taught in Scripture

fltom said:
there is nothing to be scared of

It is just silliness and nonsense
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Actually it's not. You answered honestly and you learned. You will never admit it because your in the cage stage of Provisionism. Your a zealot. You need to mature. Learn to disagree charitably.
 
Reformedguy said:
Actually it's not. You answered honestly and you learned. You will never admit it because your in the cage stage of Provisionism. Your a zealot. You need to mature. Learn to disagree charitably.
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Give it up

Your claim of being a compatibilist is nonsense

If you reject determinism you cannot be a compatibilist
 
fltom said:
All that is exposed is your willingness to post absurdities.

One who denies determinism cannot be a compatibilist.
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Yet you passed the test. Congrats compatibilist. Your a walking contradiction.

Now you now you deny determinism. I thought somethings were determined?
 
Reformedguy said:
Yet you passed the test. Congrats compatibilist. Your a walking contradiction.

Now you now you deny determinism. I thought somethings were determined?
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Your test is as defective as your posts

determinism is the belief ALL things are determined not that some things are determined

hello

You exposed your lack of understanding here
 
fltom said:
Your test is as defective as your posts

determinism is the belief ALL things are determined not that some things are determined

hello

You exposed your lack of understanding here
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Yet you took it. LOL It did prove your a compatibilist.

Hence my question. ?‍? Are somethings determined?
 
Reformedguy said:
Yet you took it. LOL It did prove your a compatibilist.

Hence my question. ?‍? Are somethings determined?
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sorry but no . all you did is demonstrate your lack of understanding regarding these issue

Everybody believes some things are determined

A determinist however believes all things are determined

hello

You base understanding of this issue is defective
 
fltom said:
sorry but no . all you did is demonstrate your lack of understanding regarding these issue

Everybody believes some things are determined

A determinist however believes all things are determined

hello

You base understanding of this issue is defective
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So your a determinist light then? What is not determined? Do you have some scriptural examples?
 
Reformedguy said:
So your a determinist light then? What is not determined? Do you have some scriptural examples?
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Nope

read

think

then post

- Free Will as taught in Scripture

there is nothing to be scared of It is just silliness and nonsense Actually it's not. You answered honestly and you learned. You will never admit it because your in the cage stage of Provisionism. Your a zealot. You need to mature. Learn to disagree charitably.
forums.carm.org
 
fltom said:
Nope

read

think

then post

- Free Will as taught in Scripture

there is nothing to be scared of It is just silliness and nonsense Actually it's not. You answered honestly and you learned. You will never admit it because your in the cage stage of Provisionism. Your a zealot. You need to mature. Learn to disagree charitably.
forums.carm.org
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Do you have scriptural examples of something that was or is not determined?
 
Reformedguy said:
Yet you took it. LOL It did prove your a compatibilist.

Hence my question. ?‍? Are somethings determined?
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He can’t even remain consistent in his own claims. He’s all over the place.
If he “denies determinism” then he is an indeterminist and can’t have man determining anything either.

He shoots himself in the foot when he states he “denies determinism” because most Provisionists believe “all things” are determined, it’s just with the caveat of “some things” by man and “other things” by God but still all things are determined…

…but fltom is even an inconsistent Provisionist when he “denies determinism” because the opposite of a determinist is an indeterminist that believes NO thing is determined and everything is random.

It’s ironic that, in this reality of creation that we live in, all we find is cause and effect determinism. Things may seem to be random to us but that is due to our limited finite understanding of how God works “all things”. No thing is random to God.

So what is fltom? A determinist that believes that all things are determined by God and man or is he an indeterminist that believes NO thing is determined and all things are random?

He has shot himself in the foot.

…
 
Howie said:
Scripture asserts you (and your will) are enslaved, either to sin (unbelief), or righteousness (through faith).

That's it. Understand, unregenerate man's condition is so dire, the Trinity agreed within itself, that the only acceptable solution was for the Son to take on flesh and die in man's place.
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Is God's will enslaved?
 
Trinitarian said:
Freewill as Taught in Scripture
​
*snip*
Exod 25:2 ESV “… From every man whose heart moves him you shall receive the contribution for me.

Exod 35:21 ESV And they came, everyone whose heart stirred him, and everyone whose spirit moved him….

Exod 35:29 ESV All the men and women, the people of Israel, whose heart moved them to bring anything for the work that the LORD had commanded by Moses to be done brought it as a freewill offering to the LORD.

Judg 5:2 ESV …that the leaders took the lead in Israel, that the people offered themselves willingly, bless the LORD!

Ezr 7:13 ESV – 13 I make a decree that anyone of the people of Israel or their priests or Levites in my kingdom, who freely offers to go to Jerusalem, may go with you.

—-[The verbal form in this last verse is a participle, on the Hithpael stem, which is reflexive in meaning, thus the word “themselves” should be added. This Hithpael verbal stem is used 17 times in the same reflexive way – Jg 5:2, 9; 1Ch 29:5, 6, 9(2x), 14, 17(2x); 2Ch 17:16; Ezr 1:6, 2:68, 3:5, 7:13, 15, 16; Neh 11:2]. The reflexive action only helps to emphasize the non-compulsory action of the person’s will in the decision made in each context—-

The noun נדבה ned-aw-baw’ is used 26 times in 25 verses, mostly in connection with a voluntary – “freewill” – offering to God. With all these verses one cannot help but ask “How can you have a freewill offering without a freewill?” Calvinists reject its normal meaning, but the Bible literally uses the word 26 times. Even the Calvinist translators of the KJV and ESV freely chose “freewill” as a suitable translation. Their translation choice is telling of what they believed this original word meant.

Here are the verses in which this noun is used:

Exod 35:29 ESV All the men and women, the people of Israel, whose heart moved them to bring anything for the work that the LORD had commanded by Moses to be done brought it as a freewill offering to the LORD. —-[The idea in this verse of a sacrifice made as a free-will offering, one not commanded as an obligation, is also found in – Ex 36:3; Le 7:16; 22:18, 21, 23; 23:38; Nu 15:3; 29:39; De 12:6, 17; 16:10; 2Ch 31:14; Ezr 1:4; 3:5; 8:28; Ps 54:6; 119:108; Eze 46:12(2x); Am 4:5]

Deut 23:23 ESV You shall be careful to do what has passed your lips, for you have voluntarily vowed to the LORD your God what you have promised with your mouth.

2Ch 35:8 ESV And his officials contributed willingly to the people, to the priests, and to the Levites….

Ps 68:9 ESV Rain in abundance, O God, you shed abroad; you restored your inheritance as it languished;

Ps 110:3 ESV Your people will offer themselves freely on the day of your power, in holy garments; from the womb of the morning, the dew of your youth will be yours.

Hos 14:4 ESV I will heal their apostasy; I will love them freely, for my anger has turned from them.

—All these OT verses clearly confirm that man, even an unregenerate man, can exercise a free-will in a manner pleasing to God. Even God is said to exercise His freewill in Hos 14:4. The translation in Ps 68:9 was obviously determined with some subjectivity. It could easily be translated – “A shower of freewill gifts, O God, you have shed abroad…”

Here are some NT words and verses to consider that also speak to the issue of the freedom of the will. A Calvinist may try to attribute all of the following examples as a result of regeneration, but that does not seem to fit this first example –

Acts 17:11-12 ESV Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so. Many of them therefore believed, with not a few Greek women of high standing as well as men.

—-[from προθυμια proth-oo-mee’-ah, meaning predisposition. See also – 2Co 8:11, 12, 19, 9:2;] The Calvinist may endeavor to suggest this willing predisposition of the Bereans was a result of regeneration, which they think is before faith is expressed. It is very difficult to convince them otherwise when their loyalty to Calvinism is so strong that they refuse to see the gospel of John clearly teaches light is freely received before faith which is before new birth life is given. See John 1:4-13, 12:35-36, 20:30-31.

Other NT verses to consider that speak to the issue of freewill are these –

1Cor 7:37 ESV But whoever is firmly established in his heart, being under no necessity but having his desire under control, and has determined this in his heart, to keep her as his betrothed, he will do well. —-from μη ἔχων ἀνάγκην , literally – “not having a necessity”, which would be impossible if everything was predetermined eternally and immutably, making every event a necessary result of God’s decree. Notice also the verse says this man “having his desire under control, and has determined this in his heart.”

1Cor 9:17 ESV For if I do this of my own will, I have a reward, but if not of my own will, I am still entrusted with a stewardship. —- from εχων hek-own’ meaning willingly.

2Cor 8:3 ESV For they gave according to their means, as I can testify, and beyond their means, of their own accord, and 2Cor 8:17 ESV For he not only accepted our appeal, but being himself very earnest he is going to you of his own accord. —-from αυθαιρετος ow-thah’-ee-ret-os – meaning self-chosen, and by implication – voluntary.

2Cor 9:7 ESV Each one must give as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. —- from προαιρεομαι pro-ahee-reh’-om-ahee – meaning to choose for oneself before another thing, to prefer and by implication, to intend.

Phlm 1:14 ESV but I preferred to do nothing without your consent in order that your goodness might not be by compulsion but of your own accord. —- from εκουσιος hek-oo’-see-on – meaning willingness.

1Pet 5:2 ESV shepherd the flock of God that is among you, exercising oversight, not under compulsion, but willingly, as God would have you; not for shameful gain, but eagerly; —-from εκουσιον hek-oo-see’-ose – meaning willingly.

*snip*
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95% of what is written also demonstrates compatibilism and the typical Calvinist position on the will and voluntary choices.

Of the other 5%, the equivocation fallacy over the nature of the word "necessity" is noted. Again, the fact that people are not compelled, but rather do what they want in keeping with God's sovereign hand is perfectly in line with the typical Calvinist position. The strict philosophical use of "necessity" is not in view in the verse, since that would contradict other verses. Hence, we can see that Paul wanted them to act willingly, so he did not use his apostolic authority (note the human-to-human relationship as well) to place an obligation or necessity upon them. In the other passage, one can note that it is not about one's relationship to God but rather not being controlled by sexual passions. The context of that verse necessarily limits . . . again, the context of the verse . . . yes, the context of the verse (1 Cor 7) necessarily limits the issue to sexual urges; it says nothing about divine sovereignty. Again, it speaks to a specific internal causal factor; it does not speak to God's sovereign power over the human heart and mind.

Of the verses that speak toward one's own this or that, something can be both one's own and also be given by another. I discussed this issue at length with another poster, who completely ignored the point even though I and others gave example after example. Therefore, human ownership does not exclude divine working. Anymore than possessing one's heart excludes the heart transplant the doctor administered. Adam's arm was his because God made it that way; it did not cease to be his because God was involved. And God is the highest standard of what is real.

A few simple thoughts...
 
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