Reconcile this apparent contradiction that says God created everything, "ALL ALONE" and "BY HIMSELF"

Y

Yahchristian

Well-known member
jamesh said:
Well let me spell it out for you. I posted Isaiah 44:24 which says, "Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb. I, the Lord, am the maker of all things. Stretching out the heavens BY MYSELF, And spreading out the earth ALL ALONE."

Then I posted John 1:3 which says, "All things came into being by HIM/JESUS CHRIST, and apart from Him (or WITHOUT HIM) nothing came into being that has come into being." What I would like you to do is reconcile this apparent contradiction that says at the Isaiah verse that "God created everything, "ALL ALONE and "BY HIMSELF" with John 1:3 that states Jesus created all things.
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Isaiah 44:24 LSB... Thus says Yahweh, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, “I, Yahweh, am the maker of all things, Stretching out the heavens by Myself And spreading out the earth all alone,

Well let me spell it out for you... :)

The Person saying "by Myself...all alone" is Yahweh, "Thus says Yahweh...I, Yahweh..."

Now just to clarify our views...

Who are "Us" if the Person of Jesus created "ALL ALONE" and "BY HIMSELF"?

Genesis 1:26 LSB... Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness, so that they will have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”

I believe "Us" refers to Yahweh incarnate (Jesus) along with preincarnate Jesus (Yahweh). The one Person of Yahweh/Jesus is referred to as "Us" to contrast incarnate with preincarnate.
 
Yahchristian said:
Isaiah 44:24 LSB... Thus says Yahweh, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, “I, Yahweh, am the maker of all things, Stretching out the heavens by Myself And spreading out the earth all alone,

Well let me spell it out for you... :)

The Person saying "by Myself...all alone" is Yahweh, "Thus says Yahweh...I, Yahweh..."

Now just to clarify our views...

Who are "Us" if the Person of Jesus created "ALL ALONE" and "BY HIMSELF"?

Genesis 1:26 LSB... Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness, so that they will have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”

I believe "Us" refers to Yahweh incarnate (Jesus) along with preincarnate Jesus (Yahweh). The one Person of Yahweh/Jesus is referred to as "Us" to contrast incarnate with preincarnate.
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The BEING saying "by Myself...all alone is God.
 
CrowCross said:
Kinda like back to the future with Michael J Fox?
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You mean kinda like continually avoiding answering questions…

Did the PERSON who is Jesus say “by Myself…all alone”?

If you say Yes…

Who are "Us" if the Person of Jesus created "ALL ALONE" and "BY HIMSELF"?

Are you able to answer the question or not.
 
Yahchristian said:
You mean kinda like continually avoiding answering questions…

Did the PERSON who is Jesus say “by Myself…all alone”?

If you say Yes…

Who are "Us" if the Person of Jesus created "ALL ALONE" and "BY HIMSELF"?

Are you able to answer the question or not.
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Answer the question....

Kinda like back to the future with Michael J Fox? Where future and past MJF were pictured together.
 
I am the Lord that maketh all things; that made all things out of nothing at first; for without Christ was not anything made that was made; all things in heaven, and earth, and sea, were made by him; and he continues all creatures in their being, and provides for them, and governs all by his power; he works hitherto, and continues working with his divine Father, John 1:1,

that stretcheth forth the heavens alone, that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself; not to the exclusion of the Father and the Holy Spirit, but of all creatures, angels and men; of himself, and by his own strength and power, and, without the help of these, he stretched out the vast space of the heavens as a curtain, and spread out the earth in its length and breadth, and the large surface of it, to that great circumference which it has; a full proof of his proper deity! A man cannot stretch out a curtain, or piece of tapestry, of any size, without the help of another; and much less can a creature stretch out the heavens and the earth.
Gils.
 
CrowCross said:
that stretcheth forth the heavens alone, that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself; not to the exclusion of the Father and the Holy Spirit,
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So……….

1) Did the PERSON who is Jesus say “by Myself…all alone”?

If you say Yes…

2) Who are "Us" if the PERSON who is Jesus created "by Myself…all alone"?
 
Yahchristian said:
So……….

1) Did the PERSON who is Jesus say “by Myself…all alone”?

If you say Yes…

2) Who are "Us" if the PERSON who is Jesus created "by Myself…all alone"?
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Crow Cross Shakes head...do you really not understand?

God did it alone....God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit....that's God......as the creation was performed alone by God....with no help from anyone or anything.

It would be like saying "me and my co-workers built that house alone, without the help from anyone else."

If you can't see or at least acknowledge that concept.....I don't see much hope in continuing this discussion.
 
CrowCross said:
Crow Cross Shakes head...do you really not understand?
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I understand Trinitarians make a distinction between the divine BEING and a divine PERSON.


CrowCross said:
God did it alone....God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit....that's God......as the creation was performed alone by God....with no help from anyone or anything.
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I am not asking who DID it but rather who SAID it…

Did the PERSON who is Jesus SAY “by Myself…all alone”?


CrowCross said:
It would be like saying "me and my co-workers built that house alone, without the help from anyone else."
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What about the phrase “BY MYSELF”…

Would it be like saying "me and my co-workers built that house BY MYSELF, without the help from anyone else”?
 
It's unbelievable of the "cluelessness" that's in you? Yes, I gave you Isaiah 44:24 and the very first sentence says, "Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer." Do you see in this verse any specific person mentioned? Would a Jew reading this come to the conclusion, "Gee, I don't see some guy named Jesus in the verse?"

So why are you asking such a lame question as to who specifically made the statement? All we know is that it was the Lord God who made it and any Jew would agree. The Jews did not have the benefit of the New Testament. What did know was that God was telling them, (starting as the book of Genesis) that a Messiah will be coming.

Then when He does come and the Gospels are written as well as the rest of the NT what does the Apostle John tell at John 1:1-14? Wow, the Messiah is God, who knew? And everything written after this is the proof. Then what happens, people come along and try to dispute with what God inspired the writers to say.

Let's take you for example. You made this "brilliant statement? "I believe "Us" refers to Yahweh incarnate (Jesus) along with preincarnate Jesus (Yahweh)." Obviously you don't see how "illogical" this statement is so let me break it down. "I believe "Us" refers to Yahweh incarnate (Jesus) (Me, Yes God is incarnate in the person of Jesus. "along with preincarnate Jesus (Yahweh). So what happened with the Father and the Holy Spirit? Where are they in your scenario, you know the "Godhead?" You have the one person of Jesus being an "Us" which by definition is more than one person? I agree with Crow Cross, "Crow Cross Shakes head..."

IN GOD THE SON,
james
 
Yahchristian said:
I understand Trinitarians make a distinction between the divine BEING and a divine PERSON.
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And what is that distinction?
Yahchristian said:
I am not asking who DID it but rather who SAID it…

Did the PERSON who is Jesus SAY “by Myself…all alone”?
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He could have...doesn't really matter which of the trinity said it.
Yahchristian said:
What about the phrase “BY MYSELF”…

Would it be like saying "me and my co-workers built that house BY MYSELF, without the help from anyone else”?
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I, me, myself... appears to be made up of a body, soul and spirit.....all 3 are considered as "myself".

Your problem is trying to make the passage say what it's not saying.....No one is buying it.
 
CrowCross said:
Your problem is trying to make the passage say what it's not saying.....No one is buying it.
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I am saying John 1:3 and Isaiah 44:24 PROVE the Person who is Jesus DID say “by Myself…all alone”.

You TRINITARIANS are the ones trying to make the passage say otherwise…

johnny guitar said:
I can't recall any verse wherein Jesus said this.
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CrowCross said:
He could have...doesn't really matter which of the trinity said it.
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Just to clarify the doctrine of the Trinity…

Did the Person who is Jesus EVER confess to creating anything?

I say YES!!! Isaiah 44:24 is an example.
 
Yahchristian said:
I am saying John 1:3 and Isaiah 44:24 PROVE the Person who is Jesus DID say “by Myself…all alone”.

You TRINITARIANS are the ones trying to make the passage say otherwise…




Just to clarify the doctrine of the Trinity…

Did the Person who is Jesus EVER confess to creating anything?

I say YES!!! Isaiah 44:24 is an example.
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You still don't get it do you?

Let US make....

I, me, myself... appears to be made up of a body, soul and spirit.....all 3 are considered as "myself".

Your problem is trying to make the passage say what it's not saying.....No one is buying it.
 
Yahchristian said:
I am saying John 1:3 and Isaiah 44:24 PROVE the Person who is Jesus DID say “by Myself…all alone”.

You TRINITARIANS are the ones trying to make the passage say otherwise…




Just to clarify the doctrine of the Trinity…

Did the Person who is Jesus EVER confess to creating anything?

I say YES!!! Isaiah 44:24 is an example.
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NO mention of Jesus in Isaiah 44:24.
And John 1:3 does NOT say Jesus made all things by Himself.
 
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