The being God sent to earth, the one whom created all other things through is Gods master worker. Wisdom cannot be( 8:31) fond of the sons of men, a living being is=Jesus-- 0 doubt.
TRINITY SPOKE =JESUS CREATED MAN
- Thread starter Towerwatchman
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Only a living being can be fond of the sons of men( 8:31) wisdom cannot. There is 0 doubt-Jesus is Gods master worker--see called a worker not the creator. He gives all credit to God.
Nope. If you actually go and honestly read the verses you have been referred to - more than once - in their context, you will find that Wisdom is being personified, and is a woman. Your refusal to do this only exposes gross dishonesty.
Alone meant--the only power source. God is the only power source.
I know better. The first verse personifies wisdom. Wisdom cannot be by Gods side as his master worker. Nor can it become fond of the sons of men.
LOL! Your post above is a VERY open display of GREAT IGNORANCE. Here's how and why that's true:
It is very evident that you are ignorant of what "personified" means.
The word "personified" means "to attribute human characteristics or attributes to something non-human."
Therefore, as YOU yourself have written: SINCE Wisdom IS being personified - as a woman - Yes, Wisdom can be by God's side and can be fond of the sons of men.
THANK YOU for so VERY openly demonstrating and proving that you do NOT have any idea of what you're talking about in your posts.
I know 100% Jesus is Gods master worker of prov 8--A created being. Are you taught that Jesus is YHWH? The bible proves that error.
Thanks for your opinion, but I'll go by how the Hebrew word is used elsewhere in the Old Testament.
Nope - You yourself proved have proven to everyone by your previous post that you don't know what the word "personified" means.
The word "personified" means "to attribute human characteristics or attributes to something non-human."
Therefore, as YOU yourself have written: SINCE Wisdom IS being personified - as a woman - Yes, Wisdom can be by God's side and can be fond of the sons of men.
THANK YOU for so VERY openly demonstrating and proving that you do NOT have any idea of what you're talking about in your posts.
It's time for you to run away off to something else now.
You know a vs that says he was named Jesus before the Word became flesh does not exist.LOL!Just keep on denying and running away Nathan. Just keep on showing and proving to anyone and everyone that that's all your posts have to offer.
It is absolutely SPLENDID that you are doing this yourself for all to see.
Just keep on denying and running away Nathan. Just keep showing and proving to anyone and everyone that that's all your posts ever have to offer.
It is absolutely SPLENDID that you are doing this yourself for all to see.
And DO remember what's said at the end of Post #91.
It is absolutely SPLENDID that you are doing this yourself for all to see.
And DO remember what's said at the end of Post #91.
I know what it means. Many things in the bible are given living being characteristics but aren't living beings-The holy spirit isn't a living being. Jesus became wisdom- 1Cor 1:30
LOL! Yes, Jesus Christ IS a living being. But Wisdom in Proverbs 8 is NOT - And you have already admitted to this.
Yes Jesus is a living being. Coll 1:15--The firstborn(created)of all creation. Your religion teaching crap lies on that matter- Everyone knows 100% all creation occurred--AT THE BEGINNING. He as well tells you that fact at Prov 8, but since you choose lies over truth you do not know him and vica versa. You need to relook.
I will start a thread--the real disciples of Jesus.
LOL! Your post does nothing but run away from your admission that Wisdom - something that is NOT a living being - is personified in Proverbs. 8. Thanks, keiw - It's EXCELLENT (and no surprise) that you keep doing this yourself for all to see!
AND - the word "firstborn" does NOT mean "first created". Here is how and why that's true: The word "firstborn" as used in Col. 1:15 has to do with primacy or supremacy. The contextual theme of Colossians 1:15-19 is that of the Supremacy of Christ. "Firstborn" is a Hebrew concept and word having to do with rank, primacy, and supremacy. By calling Christ "firstborn", Vs. 15 is saying that Christ is the Supreme One over all Creation. That makes Him God. There is a different word for "first created", and that is the word Paul would have used if he wanted to convey the idea that Christ is a creation. He DOESN'T.
AND - Even your own JW masters admit that "firstborn" has to do with supremacy. “David, who was the youngest son of Jesses [sic], was called by Jehovah the “firstborn,” due to Jehovah’s elevation of David to the preeminent position in God’s chosen nation” (Aid to Bible Understanding, 1971, 584).
ALSO - Israel is called God's "firstborn" in Exodus 4:22. But, Israel was DEFINITELY and CERTAINLY NOT the first nation ever created.
ADDED to this, in Revelation 1:5, Jesus is called “the firstborn of the dead,” even though He was not the first person to be resurrected chronologically. But of all ever raised, He is the Highest One, the Preeminent One. Romans 8:29 refers to Him as the firstborn in relation to the church.
In all the above cases, firstborn clearly means highest in rank, not first created.
Go ahead and start your thread - You have totally and pathetically FAILED here.
Your post does nothing but run away from your admission that Wisdom - something that is NOT a living being - is personified in Proverbs. 8. Thanks, keiw - It's EXCELLENT (and no surprise) that you keep doing this yourself for all to see! AND - the word "firstborn" does NOT mean "first created". Here is how and why that's true: The word "firstborn" as used in Col. 1:15 has to do with primacy or supremacy. The contextual theme of Colossians 1:15-19 is that of the Supremacy of Christ. "Firstborn" is a Hebrew concept and word having to do with rank, primacy, and supremacy. By calling Christ "firstborn", Vs. 15 is saying that Christ is the Supreme One over all Creation. That makes Him God. There is a different word for "first created", and that is the word Paul would have used if he wanted to convey the idea that Christ is a creation. He DOESN'T.
AND - Even your own JW masters admit that "firstborn" has to do with supremacy. “David, who was the youngest son of Jesses [sic], was called by Jehovah the “firstborn,” due to Jehovah’s elevation of David to the preeminent position in God’s chosen nation” (Aid to Bible Understanding, 1971, 584).
ALSO - Israel is called God's "firstborn" in Exodus 4:22. But, Israel was DEFINITELY and CERTAINLY NOT the first nation ever created.
ADDED to this, in Revelation 1:5, Jesus is called “the firstborn of the dead,” even though He was not the first person to be resurrected chronologically. But of all ever raised, He is the Highest One, the Preeminent One. Romans 8:29 refers to Him as the firstborn in relation to the church.
In all the above cases, firstborn clearly means highest in rank, not first created.
Go ahead and start your thread - You have totally and pathetically FAILED here.
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You fail because at col. 1:15-17 the subject is the invisible God and you refuse to realize that because it says he is an image "of the invisible God". Or the invisible God is the highest ranking one there.LOL!
AND - the word "firstborn" does NOT mean "first created". Here is how and why that's true: The word "firstborn" as used in Col. 1:15 has to do with primacy or supremacy. The contextual theme of Colossians 1:15-19 is that of the Supremacy of Christ. "Firstborn" is a Hebrew concept and word having to do with rank, primacy, and supremacy. By calling Christ "firstborn", Vs. 15 is saying that Christ is the Supreme One over all Creation. That makes Him God. There is a different word for "first created", and that is the word Paul would have used if he wanted to convey the idea that Christ is a creation. He DOESN'T.
AND - Even your own JW masters admit that "firstborn" has to do with supremacy. “David, who was the youngest son of Jesses [sic], was called by Jehovah the “firstborn,” due to Jehovah’s elevation of David to the preeminent position in God’s chosen nation” (Aid to Bible Understanding, 1971, 584).
ALSO - Israel is called God's "firstborn" in Exodus 4:22. But, Israel was DEFINITELY and CERTAINLY NOT the first nation ever created.
ADDED to this, in Revelation 1:5, Jesus is called “the firstborn of the dead,” even though He was not the first person to be resurrected chronologically. But of all ever raised, He is the Highest One, the Preeminent One. Romans 8:29 refers to Him as the firstborn in relation to the church.
In all the above cases, firstborn clearly means highest in rank, not first created.
Go ahead and start your thread - You have totally and pathetically FAILED here.
LOL!
AND - the word "firstborn" does NOT mean "first created". Here is how and why that's true: The word "firstborn" as used in Col. 1:15 has to do with primacy or supremacy. The contextual theme of Colossians 1:15-19 is that of the Supremacy of Christ. "Firstborn" is a Hebrew concept and word having to do with rank, primacy, and supremacy. By calling Christ "firstborn", Vs. 15 is saying that Christ is the Supreme One over all Creation. That makes Him God. There is a different word for "first created", and that is the word Paul would have used if he wanted to convey the idea that Christ is a creation. He DOESN'T.
AND - Even your own JW masters admit that "firstborn" has to do with supremacy. “David, who was the youngest son of Jesses [sic], was called by Jehovah the “firstborn,” due to Jehovah’s elevation of David to the preeminent position in God’s chosen nation” (Aid to Bible Understanding, 1971, 584).
ALSO - Israel is called God's "firstborn" in Exodus 4:22. But, Israel was DEFINITELY and CERTAINLY NOT the first nation ever created.
ADDED to this, in Revelation 1:5, Jesus is called “the firstborn of the dead,” even though He was not the first person to be resurrected chronologically. But of all ever raised, He is the Highest One, the Preeminent One. Romans 8:29 refers to Him as the firstborn in relation to the church.
In all the above cases, firstborn clearly means highest in rank, not first created.
Go ahead and start your thread - You have totally and pathetically FAILED here.
The term--ALL CREATION--proves its about the beginning creation. Men twist it it to fit dogmas.
LOL!
Nope - You're wrong again, as usual. Christ is the subject and focus of the verses. Anyone with even a modicum of reading comprehension ability very, very easily sees this when vs. 15 is read HONESTLY. In view of that fact, if you REALLY want to HONESTLY talk about "refusal" (that is VERY deliberate), look no further than your very own posts - That's all they do. In view of that, I remind you of the old proverb:Physician, heal THYSELF first.
What's been presented about the word "firstborn" in vs. 15 meaning "the highest ranking One; the Supreme One over all Creation - which makes Christ God - is accurate and true. And even the JW masters have admitted to the meaning of the term and how it's used.
And then - There are the other references that have been provided...which you totally avoid. Well, no surprise there.
All your post does is what your posts DO - Deny, deny. As usual, I'm VERY willing to let any honest and fair-minded reader decide for themselves between us regarding this.
Go right ahead, Nathan - Deny some more. It's what your posts do the best.
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