Christianity: Friend or foe to science?

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Yes, the Bible isn't a science book, but any good book, science book or not, should not contain scientific errors.

The longer this thread goes on, the more obvious it is that this poster doesn't know the first thing about science. And his zeal against Christianity causes him to make many ridiculous and irrational claims.

He says any good book "should not contain scientific errors".
But how does this poster define "science"?

The poster is apparently unaware that "science" doesn't give us "facts", but rather it tries to give us UNDERSTANDING of how and why things occur. And our scientific UNDERSTANDING of things CHANGES over time as we learn more, and we discover instances which disprove longstanding scientific ideas.

It was once understood that the atom was the smallest particle of matter. Now we know that's not correct.
It was once understood that the Sun and all other celestial bodies orbitted the Earth. Now we know that's not correct.
It was once understood that Newton's Laws of Motion described all motion. Now we know that's not correct.
It was once understood that all matter was visible. We now believe that to be incorrect.
It was once understood that gravity was based on straight line forces between masses. Now we believe it's more complicated than that.

"Science" changes over time.

So when we evaluate books to judge whether they contain "scientific error", which understanding of "science" do we use for this?

There seems to me to be two options:

1) Only the ultimate science discovered at the end of time, can be determined to be accurate, and so EVERY science book or scientist was a "bad science", because what they wrote about ended up being incorrect or flawed in some way. (This seems incredibly unreasonable to me.)

2) We judge every book based on the scientific understanding that was available at the time.

But if you wish to throw out "Principia" as unscientific and therefore "not a good book", I guess you are free to do that.
 
You'll need to document how demons can also cause illness.

A five year old can do that.


God said sin will lead to death...

and we know that demons belong to the realm that cheers for sin and death.

What are features of existence (=death) since His souls left eden?

physical death
pain
sweat and toil
pain
disease and illness
separation from God
 
@Unknown Soldier :
"You'll need to document how demons can also cause illness."


2

Adam listened to satan, of the demonic reality
subjecting us all to death and disease.

.... rejecting life, God's reality.


what are the 2 laws God describes ?

- the law of sin and death

- the law of the spirit of life
 
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Now this is interesting....

So here is a list of works that Unknown Soldier considers:

"Not good books":
The Hobbit
Lord of the Rings trilogy
Harry Potter series
From the Earth to the Moon
Journey to the Centre of the Earth
Nineteen Eighty-Four
Fahrenheit 451
The Time Machine
Contact (Carl Sagan)
The Green Mile (Stephen King)
Hitch-Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy
Brave New World
Dune
The Iliad
The Odyssey
etc.
etc.
etc.
etc.

I believe most English scholars would take issue with your opinion.
But whatever.
What scientific errors do those books make? They are works of fiction, so any apparent scientific errors they make are merely the result of artistic license. Besides, when I mentioned "any good book" I was referring to nonfiction.
 
Gal. 4:16 Have I then become your enemy by telling you the truth?
I find it amusing that you have to try to play the victim ("Oh, he's so MEEEEEAAAAN!!! Waaahhh!"), since you don't have a coherent rebuttal.
Go ahead and be mean. I enjoy the laughs.
You haven't demonstrated it to be an "error".
The mustard seed is not the smallest seed. Stars are too big and too far away to fall from the sky. There is no ocean in the sky because rockets have been sent into space and remained completely dry.
Let me explain it to you once again.
Statements need to be understood in the CONTEXT in which they're made.
Yes. Of course.
So unless you can demonstrate that Jesus' followers were aware of seeds smaller than the mustard seed, then there was no "error". Jesus statement about the mustard seed being the smallest MUST be taken in the context of the seeds THEY were aware of.
I'm afraid that's wrong. Error obviously is not excused by ignorance, of course.
For instance, Jesus COULD have said, 'The kingdom of heaven is like the jewel orchid seed, which is the smallest seed on Earth. I know you have no clue what a jewel orchid seed is...
I don't know why I'm supposed to know what a jewel orchid seed is.
....and can't possibly understand my comment...
I freely admit that there's a lot you post that I don't understand.
...but I have to be factually correct in an ABSOLUTE sense, or else some troublemaker in the 21st century is going to take issue with what I say".
I think it's a good idea to be factually correct in any century, and I see some of us are still working on getting our facts straight in this century.
The burden is on YOU to prove that demons are NOT part of the process, since you are the one denying it.
So if I can't prove that demons don't cause illness, then they do. That's absolutely brilliant, Theo!
You didn't know that Jesus predated Pasteur?
Thank you for admitting that you're simply a troll.
If a troll is somebody who doesn't know that Jesus predated Pasteur, then it's possible I might be a troll.
Perhaps you're not aware that nobody's trying to force you to become a Christian.
Based on your comments, I'm sure there are more atheists in the world.
Then I suggest you get the medical attention that you admit you need.
Only if I start screaming insults when I log onto this forum.
 
Go ahead and be mean. I enjoy the laughs.

Go ahead and continue trying to play the victim.
People are laughing at you.

The mustard seed is not the smallest seed.

You keep ignoring the CONTEXT.

Stars are too big and too far away to fall from the sky.

You clearly don't understand how gravity works.
A greater mass makes objects more likely to be attracted to each other.

F(g) = G(m1)(m2) / d^2
The force of gravity is directly proportional to the masses of the two obects.
I teach this on a regular basis.
Look up, "law of universal gravitation".

There is no ocean in the sky because rockets have been sent into space and remained completely dry.

<Chuckle>
Because you think we've exhaustively studied all of cosmic space?
That's as irrational as the Flat-Earthers and the Geocentrists.

I don't know why I'm supposed to know what a jewel orchid seed is.

Then you clearly have no clue what you're talking about.
The jewel orchid seed is (arguably) the smallest seed on Earth.
But if you question that, then I guess Jesus was right after all! 🤣 🤣 🤣

I think it's a good idea to be factually correct in any century, and I see some of us are still working on getting our facts straight in this century.

Please don't get too frustrated with yourself...
You may still get their eventually.

So if I can't prove that demons don't cause illness, then they do. That's absolutely brilliant, Theo!

Nope.
That wasn't my argument at all.
But thanks for the uncharitable mockery.

Based on your comments, I'm sure there are more atheists in the world.

Why do you even care?

Only if I start screaming insults when I log onto this forum.

You mean like falsely accusing people of being a "meanie" whenever you don't like their view?
Do you know what a "snowflake"is?
 
You keep ignoring the CONTEXT.
Let's take a look at that context. From Mark 4:30-32 (KJV) we have:
And he said, Whereunto shall we liken the kingdom of God? or with what comparison shall we compare it?

It is like a grain of mustard seed, which, when it is sown in the earth, is less than all the seeds that be in the earth:

But when it is sown, it groweth up, and becometh greater than all herbs, and shooteth out great branches; so that the fowls of the air may lodge under the shadow of it.
So where's the problem? The context doesn't make that error any less wrong.
You clearly don't understand how gravity works.
A greater mass makes objects more likely to be attracted to each other.

F(g) = G(m1)(m2) / d^2
The force of gravity is directly proportional to the masses of the two obects.
I teach this on a regular basis.
Look up, "law of universal gravitation".
I have no idea what any of this has to do with my pointing out that stars are too big and far away to fall from the sky. You'll need to explain.
<Chuckle>
Because you think we've exhaustively studied all of cosmic space?
That's as irrational as the Flat-Earthers and the Geocentrists.
So that firmament is out there somewhere waiting to be discovered. It can't be too far because it's visible to the naked eye.
Then you clearly have no clue what you're talking about.
The jewel orchid seed is (arguably) the smallest seed on Earth.
But if you question that, then I guess Jesus was right after all! 🤣 🤣 🤣
Then the Bible is wrong about the mustard seed being the smallest seed. Thanks for helping me make my case.
Please don't get too frustrated with yourself...
You may still get their eventually.
I make a point of learning every day.
Why do you even care?
As a true and faithful Christian, I hate to see people being turned off by those ignorant and hostile individuals who parade themselves as followers of Christ who are nothing of the sort.
You mean like falsely accusing people of being a "meanie" whenever you don't like their view?
No. I mean when people spout insults like a spitting cobra.
Do you know what a "snowflake"is?
Yes, and I can see what flakes are too.
 
So where's the problem? The context doesn't make that error any less wrong.

I see you have no desire to understand any view other than your own.
That's the definition of closed-mindedness.

I have no idea what any of this has to do with my pointing out that stars are too big and far away to fall from the sky. You'll need to explain.

Clearly you have no understanding.
Being "too big" INCREASES the gravity involved with a mass.

If there are two stars on opposite sides of Earth, and both are the same distance away from Earth, then the larger star is going to have more gravitational pull with Earth than a smaller star will.

This is basic physics.

F(g) = G (M-E) (M-S)
.................d^2

F(g) = force of gravity
G = universal gravitational constant
M-E = mass of Earth
M-S = mass of a star
d = distance between the two objects

F(g) = G (M-E) (M-S)
.................d^2

Now, the mass of the star is on the numerator (that's the top part of the fraction). And so if M-S doubles, then the resulting force F(g) is going to double as well. So being large is an ADVANTAGE as far as gravity is concerned.

It's why we orbit the Sun, and not the moon.

Then the Bible is wrong about the mustard seed being the smallest seed. Thanks for helping me make my case.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

I make a point of learning every day.

Not from where I sit.
You seem to want to try to make a point of telling everyone they're wrong, every day.
 
So that firmament is out there somewhere waiting to be discovered. It can't be too far because it's visible to the naked eye.

Then the Bible is wrong about the mustard seed ...

As a true and faithful Christian, I hate to see people ....

So let me get this straight...

You claim to be "a true and faithful Christian", who believes that the Bible is full of errors.
Am I understanding you correctly?
 
You'll need to document how demons can also cause illness.
A five year old can do that.
Oh sure. Five-year-olds tend to be experts on demons as causes of illness.
God said sin will lead to death...
From what I've seen, conception leads to death.
and we know that demons belong to the realm that cheers for sin and death.
Sin and death--sin and death---rah Rah RAH!
What are features of existence (=death) since His souls left eden?

physical death
pain
sweat and toil
pain
disease and illness
separation from God
But are there any clinical trials demonstrating that demons cause illness? Preferably trials conducted by five-year-olds.
 
Being "too big" INCREASES the gravity involved with a mass.

If there are two stars on opposite sides of Earth, and both are the same distance away from Earth, then the larger star is going to have more gravitational pull with Earth than a smaller star will.

This is basic physics.

F(g) = G (M-E) (M-S)
.................d^2

F(g) = force of gravity
G = universal gravitational constant
M-E = mass of Earth
M-S = mass of a star
d = distance between the two objects

F(g) = G (M-E) (M-S)
.................d^2

Now, the mass of the star is on the numerator (that's the top part of the fraction). And so if M-S doubles, then the resulting force F(g) is going to double as well. So being large is an ADVANTAGE as far as gravity is concerned.

It's why we orbit the Sun, and not the moon.
I have no idea what any of this has to do with the mistaken notion that the stars can fall from the sky.
Not from where I sit.
You seem to want to try to make a point of telling everyone they're wrong, every day.
Only if they are wrong. Correcting the errors I see on these boards keeps me very busy.
You claim to be "a true and faithful Christian", who believes that the Bible is full of errors.
Am I understanding you correctly?
Of course the Bible has some errors in it. The God of truth would never deny that because the truth is more important to Him than having people make an idol out of a book. If I were you, I'd put Christ's doctrines of love and truth on the front burner. Not all who call him Lord are saved but those who do the Father's will of spreading that love and truth. Those who make a mockery of Christ claiming to follow Him yet hating their enemies and calling them fools will not be held unaccountable before the judgment seat of Christ.
 
Oh sure. Five-year-olds tend to be experts on demons as causes of illness.

From what I've seen, conception leads to death.

Sin and death--sin and death---rah Rah RAH!

But are there any clinical trials demonstrating that demons cause illness? Preferably trials conducted by five-year-olds.
your argument only seems logical to you because you delimit it greatly by flattening away all nuance and context. My answer was fine and yes a five year old could understand it and explain it to you.
 
I have no idea what any of this has to do with the mistaken notion that the stars can fall from the sky.
Yep.
You admit that you are completely ignorant of the basics of how gravity works.
Maybe you should cease presuming to "correct" others when you are the one who is ignorant.

Only if they are wrong. Correcting the errors I see on these boards keeps me very busy.

Wow.
The arrogance and condescension!

Of course the Bible has some errors in it. The God of truth would never deny that because the truth is more important to Him than having people make an idol out of a book. If I were you,

Like I said, you believe the Bible is full of errors.

I'd put Christ's doctrines of love and truth on the front burner.

And what do you know about "Christ's doctrines of love and truth"?
Remember, you claim the Bible is full of errors, and unreliable, so don't be citing the Bible for that.

For that matter, how do you even know that Christ existed?
Remember, you claim the Bible is full of errors, and unreliable, so don't be citing the Bible for that.

Not all who call him Lord are saved

You should take that warning VERY seriously, IMO.

but those who do the Father's will of spreading that love and truth.

And how do you know what "the Father's will" is?
Remember, you claim the Bible is full of errors, and unreliable, so don't be citing the Bible for that.

Those who make a mockery of Christ claiming to follow Him yet hating their enemies and calling them fools will not be held unaccountable before the judgment seat of Christ.

You should take that warning VERY seriously, IMO.
 
it's descartes, not bacon. lol.
though irrelevant since it's basically plato's same old diaeresis.

descartes had one or more dreams. he was basically an occultist. And famously claimed the scientific method was given to him by the 'spiritual realm'.


cannot make these things up!!!
No, it was not Descartes. Actually I did made a mistake. It was the wrong Bacon. It was Roger Bacon, who also was a Christian.

From Wikipedia:

Roger Bacon (/ˈbeɪkən/;[6] Latin: Rogerus or Rogerius Baconus, Baconis, also Frater Rogerus; c. 1219/20 – c. 1292), also known by the scholastic accolade Doctor Mirabilis, was a medieval English philosopher and Franciscan friar who placed considerable emphasis on the study of nature through empiricism. In the early modern era, he was regarded as a wizard and particularly famed for the story of his mechanical or necromantic brazen head. He is sometimes credited (mainly since the 19th century) as one of the earliest European advocates of the modern scientific method, along with his teacher Robert Grosseteste.
 
A five year old can do that.


God said sin will lead to death...

and we know that demons belong to the realm that cheers for sin and death.

What are features of existence (=death) since His souls left eden?

physical death
pain
sweat and toil
pain
disease and illness
separation from God
But spiritual death is not the same as mortal death.

Mortal man returns to dust.

Spiritual death is death to everything you believe, which brings forth Spiritual life, that of Christ to have Gods same mind, or Spirit the mind is called, to be Gods anointed one. Christ resurrected in you. Christ + Gods anointed and either you are or you are not and have not died that death to self beliefs.

Everyone who has died to their old ways as Jesus did in Matt 3:16 come to life in Gods anointing, Christ in you.

That doesnt make any sense for you does it?
 
But spiritual death is not the same as mortal death.

Mortal man returns to dust.

Spiritual death is death to everything you believe, which brings forth Spiritual life, that of Christ to have Gods same mind, or Spirit the mind is called, to be Gods anointed one. Christ resurrected in you. Christ + Gods anointed and either you are or you are not and have not died that death to self beliefs.

Everyone who has died to their old ways as Jesus did in Matt 3:16 come to life in Gods anointing, Christ in you.

That doesnt make any sense for you does it?
i already died... to adam...


adam died to God (bad) and was born to the satanic pantheon fallen angels (bad)

mortality exists because man died to God.
 
Yep.
You admit that you are completely ignorant of the basics of how gravity works.
Maybe you should cease presuming to "correct" others when you are the one who is ignorant.
Your proposed explanation says nothing about how stars can fall from the sky. That's because we all know that stars cannot fall from the sky. We obviously should not base science on errors like that.
Only if they are wrong. Correcting the errors I see on these boards keeps me very busy.


Wow.
The arrogance and condescension!
Actually, we are doing people favors when we correct them. I for one love to be corrected--it sure beats continuing to be wrong. That's why I show gratitude to those who correct me.
And what do you know about "Christ's doctrines of love and truth"?
I've read those doctrines. They generally go unheeded.
Remember, you claim the Bible is full of errors, and unreliable, so don't be citing the Bible for that.
I can still cite the Bible when it's right.
For that matter, how do you even know that Christ existed?
I don't know if Christ existed.
You should take that warning VERY seriously, IMO.
Oh sure. Revilers, for example, will be damned unless they repent. (1 Corinthians 6:9-10):
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
So all revilers should get fitted for asbestos underwear.
And how do you know what "the Father's will" is?
I've read the Bible. His will is that we love and respect others.
You should take that warning VERY seriously, IMO.
Oh I take all Christ's injunctions seriously. I live by them.
 
i already died... to adam...
Then why do you hold Adam accountable for all of your own iniquities to be like the Father of it that simply is Love.

Your god has created a dark and ugly world full of apes and hatred. That has to be a most miserable state of mind to live in. I like the God of heaven for in it is Love and the light of.
adam died to God (bad) and was born to the satanic pantheon fallen angels (bad)
No Adam died to self and became like God as God commands of us all if we are to be of Him. Se Gen 3;22. Adam could not have continued in his state of mind least that mind changed. Same happened in Jesus in Matt 3:16 and Jesus referred to this renewing of the mind to think in His terms as born again.

Once you made a statement that you could not relate to born again to have that change of mind to think in Gods terms. You cant know God at all without that same change as Adam had, Abraham had, Moses had, Jesus had, 120 had by God Himself giving us His same mind. That old man Adam had to die.

The first man Adam was of flesh, that second man Adam was of Spirit, See Gen 3:22, this is the Spirit he became as.
mortality exists because man died to God.
Mortality exists because it is the temple of God.

You havent learned yet that God is a Spirit and that Spirit is Love and man is the temple of Him is all.

Adan didn't cause your sin LOL, your own iniquities cause your sin. Had you became like God as Adam did you would know this difference as well but obviously you do not have a clue what happened ion Adam, Abraham, Moses, Jesus in Matt 3:16, nor 120.
 
Then why do you hold Adam accountable for all of your own iniquities to be like the Father of it that simply is Love.

Your god has created a dark and ugly world full of apes and hatred. That has to be a most miserable state of mind to live in. I like the God of heaven for in it is Love and the light of.

No Adam died to self and became like God as God commands of us all if we are to be of Him. Se Gen 3;22. Adam could not have continued in his state of mind least that mind changed. Same happened in Jesus in Matt 3:16 and Jesus referred to this renewing of the mind to think in His terms as born again.

Once you made a statement that you could not relate to born again to have that change of mind to think in Gods terms. You cant know God at all without that same change as Adam had, Abraham had, Moses had, Jesus had, 120 had by God Himself giving us His same mind. That old man Adam had to die.

The first man Adam was of flesh, that second man Adam was of Spirit, See Gen 3:22, this is the Spirit he became as.

Mortality exists because it is the temple of God.

You havent learned yet that God is a Spirit and that Spirit is Love and man is the temple of Him is all.

Adan didn't cause your sin LOL, your own iniquities cause your sin. Had you became like God as Adam did you would know this difference as well but obviously you do not have a clue what happened ion Adam, Abraham, Moses, Jesus in Matt 3:16, nor 120.
mortality is death and flesh

and cannot enter heaven
 
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