Is God angry with sin ? Since God is angry with sin why do Calvinist believe it was God’s sovereign plan that preordained sin ?

I have some questions for you:
If God is omnipresent, omniscient, and omnipotent, how did Adam sin in the first place? If God is omnipresent, God was in the midst of the garden, in the midst of this little gathering of the serpent, Eve, and Adam at the tree, and had front row seats to everything that was happening. Why did God allow a man to corrupt His creation? Why did God put a man in the position of being able to corrupt His creation? Should He have not waited until Adam sinned or didn't sin, to bestow the dominion of all creation onto Adam? That goes to God's omniscience. Did God somehow not know that if Adam sinned, it would corrupt His Creation? Was that beyond God's capability to understand? Considering that the serpent said that God knows the difference between good and evil, that is easily answered with a solid...NO. God knew. Yet He gave Adam dominion over all creation prior to testing him. And omnipotence along with omnipresence. If it was God's desire for these things not to happen, that serpent would have been shot into space, and would still be traversing the universe today.

EDIT: I forgot something. If God could stop Abraham from sacrificing Isaac, then why couldn't God stop Adam and Eve? Why didn't God stop Adam when He realized what was going on in Adam? (Already knew what would go on in Adam, and that Adam was incapable of thinking/acting rationally at the time.) It sounds more and more like a plan each time I consider it.

So, is your God omniscient? If so, then He already knew Adam was going to sin. What does that do to determination? Well, God knew Adam was going to sin because God determined it. (See how that works?) God watched them sin, and then God made His presence known to Adam and Eve by calling out to them. He asked them who told them they were naked, and then told them. He already knew. He wasn't confused when He showed up. He presented Himself as the parent who already knew what the children had done (because they were watching), and asked them about it, as though He didn't know.
Adam sinned in the first place by disobeying God. God gave Adam a choice obey Him and live or disobey Him and die. Any why did God allow questions you have to ask God. God gave Adam dominion over the earth which Adam forfeited to satan who is now the god of this world as per scripture. My God is omniscient is yours ? The question God asked Adam where are you wasn’t because He didn’t know where Adam was the question was for Adam’s benefit affording Adam the opportunity to confess his disobedience to God. To believe God determined Adam to sin ( your opinion and no where in scripture ) is blasphemy against God.
 
Whose command was ever fulfilled unless the Lord decreed it?

Is it not from the mouth of the Most High that everything comes – both calamity and blessing?
Lamentations 3:37‭-‬38 NET
 
Do you deny that God knew the results of his own action of creating those men? He could have not created them and prevented their sin. God created man knowing they would sin. God knew the results of his own actions. If God knew that by creating man that man would sin then how did God not determine that man sin by creating them?
...
If a teacher knows that a student is going to cheat on an exam, then how is the teacher not determining that the student cheats by giving them the exam?...
I think I now see the confusion here:
a) Does God determine the event, knowing the man would choose to sin/cheat?
OR
b) Does God determine the event and decree/ordain man to sin/cheat?
 
Adam sinned in the first place by disobeying God.

No “Adam sinned” is not in the “first place”. Adam sinned for a reason.

What was that reason?

God gave Adam a choice obey Him and live or disobey Him and die… My God is omniscient is yours?

God gave him a choice by taking the action of placing the tree “in the first place”.

Gods foreknowledge is Gods perfect knowledge of the results of his own actions!

Gods “foreknowledge” is God knowing his work in the meticulous design of Lucifer, Adam, Eve, The Garden of Eden, The Tree of Life, The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, the timing and placement of all of them together ...“before” he works them!

Act 15:18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

God knew Lucifers strengths and weaknesses because he designed him!
God knew Adams weaknesses because he designed him!
God knew Eves weaknesses because he designed her!
God knew the definite result when Satan was given access into the Garden!
God knew the consequences of the fall because he designed the consequences! (see Rom 5:18-19)

Adam played his part precisely how God planned and purposed him to play his part!

 
But that’s the point God does know therefore the analogy does work.

If a teacher knows that a student is going to cheat on an exam, then how is the teacher not determining that the student cheats by giving them the exam?

If God knew that by creating man that man would sin then how did God not determine that man sin by creating them?



I think I now see the confusion here:
a) Does God determine the event, knowing the man would choose to sin/cheat?

Yes, but God also determined many other factors that preceded and lead upto this event. God also determined when, where, and how “the man” would come into existence, and to what parents “the man” would be born to, just to mention a few.

OR
b) Does God determine the event and decree/ordain man to sin/cheat?

No. Neither the teacher nor God spoke/commanded the man to sin/cheat, but he did Ultimately Determine those events to occur through other natural means.

 
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Find me a scripture that says Adam was created to sin. Scripture says Adam was created in the image of God. Is God a sinner ? No. Neither was Adam created to be a sinner he became a sinner by disobeying God’s command. Ok, let’s look at your assumption that it was God’s sovereign plan for Adam to disobey Him the end state as you call it. Knowing Adam would sin why would God warn Adam to not eat off of that tree and warn him that in the day he ate off of that tree he would die ? Remember you believe it is God’s sovereign will that Adam disobey Him right ? So now we have God warning Adam not to do the exact opposite of His sovereign will and plan for Adam to disobey Him. If what you believe is true That would make God disingenuous ( telling Adam not to do what He preordained Adam to do) dishonest ( telling Adam don’t when His sovereign will had already decreed the outcome) , and a liar( telling Adam do not when His sovereign plan had already determined that Adam would disobey Him) where is the fear of God before your eyes when you attribute satan and man’s sins to Almighty God ?
This is the kind of argumentation when you do not understand terms. The terms you don't understand are God, sin, omniscience, omnipotence, omnipresence, etc. Why is this a problem? You forget that sin is an archery term that means to miss the mark. What mark is being missed? What is the standard that is being missed? God's standard. We are to be like God. So, if you say God did something, then by definition, it can't be sin. This is the starting point of all discussion. God cannot sin. God is not held to a given standard...God is the standard. There is also no one, other than yourself, who can stand above Him to judge Him. (Hey, you took that title for yourself when you mansplained to God what He can and cannot do, and what it means if He did something.) You need to step back FAR AWAY from the position you have set for yourself. Have you no fear of God, that you don't even weigh what you say? You don't type with trembling when you make the claims you make? Have you seen how carefully some of the early church fathers stepped when they made any claims. Even Anselm, when he gave his proof for God, praised God and showed utter humility in every other sentence. As soon as he made a statement, he was off again praising and thanking God for insight, in utter humility and worship. To us today, total overkill. However, the problem is probably with us, not Anselm.

God is the sovereign Creator of the universe, and as such, He is above it. Yet you seek to judge Him as though He is not the Creator. As the Creator, He is, by definition, free to do however He pleases. Why? As was stated above, God is the standard of right and wrong, of good and evil. God is the standard from which deviation is called sin. If God does it, by definition, it can't be sin.

God didn't warn Adam not to eat of the tree. I'm not sure where you get that idea. God commanded Adam not to eat of the tree. It was not a warning. It wasn't, well you can weigh whether or not you should. It was a command. No exceptions. And once again, why do you not understand what God's sovereign will means. It isn't isolated to a point in time. God's sovereign will is reflected in the outcome of creation, which is not found in Genesis, but at the end of Revelation. All of it is there. Adam's actions put God's sovereign will, God's design into motion. So no, God's sovereign will was not for Adam to sin, but required Adam's sin in order to come to fruition. It shouldn't be this difficult for you to understand. Once again, why did God give Adam dominion over the world if God knew that Adam was going to lose it. What sort of Creator wants their creation to be corrupted without reason? God had reason, which is His sovereign will and plan for His creation. If you can't start at square one, you are going to miss everything. Did God create humans because He wanted to see them suffer? Did God refuse to destroy Adam and Eve and start over because He enjoys watching humanity suffer? When God saw how bad humanity would become, did He save Noah and his family to continue (on a smaller scale at first) the species so He could continue to watch them suffer? Can you have a proper answer for these questions, given the stance you have taken?

You have no fear of God. I mean, your argument is that if God did it in a way which it can be shown rationally that He could have, and we believe He did, then we must consider God a sinner, with sins attributed from humanity and Satan. I mean really? Why is it that people who believe as you do, find refuge in attacking God, and bring God low? I understand that you cannot come up with a different rational argument for why God didn't do that, but since when does that give you the right to judge God?
 
Adam sinned in the first place by disobeying God. God gave Adam a choice obey Him and live or disobey Him and die. Any why did God allow questions you have to ask God. God gave Adam dominion over the earth which Adam forfeited to satan who is now the god of this world as per scripture. My God is omniscient is yours ?
Why did God give Adam dominion over all of creation (reread what God said) if God knew Adam was going to sin? Why didn't God wait until after Adam either sinned or didn't sin? (Since you believe Adam had a choice in end state/outcome). Why didn't God, who was there the whole time, intervene? I mean, the sanctity, the purity, the goodness of His handiwork, His creation was at stake. He let Adam hand over the dominion of all creation to God's enemy. Why? What was God's plan/goal in doing so? The very nature of God is in the balance based on your answer. Will you make God human, or allow God to be God, the almighty Creator of heaven and earth? Why would you believe that God, who is the Creator and sustainer of all that is, somehow has no idea what is going on? You claim God is omniscient, however, you wish to claim that God had no clue what Adam would do, because Adam's will trumps God's will, and to argue against that is to make God a sinner.
The question God asked Adam where are you wasn’t because He didn’t know where Adam was the question was for Adam’s benefit affording Adam the opportunity to confess his disobedience to God. To believe God determined Adam to sin ( your opinion and no where in scripture ) is blasphemy against God.
Let's make this a simple as possible, since you have brought up God's sovereign will and determination. If God's sovereign will is to show grace and mercy to a group of His creation that He chose to adopt as children before the world was formed (Ephesians 1), to immerse them in His awesomeness, and to pour out the richness of who/what He is upon them, then Adam's sin was not only necessary, but required. And beyond that, if God's sovereign will was that His children, and the nations of the world glorify His name (one of the reasons He gave for the destruction and carnage in Egypt), and that when His creation is finally destroyed and recreated, that His children worship and praise Him throughout eternity, Adam's sin was not only necessary, but required. That should not be too difficult for you to understand. You keep denying the context of scripture, and isolate parts. You have not considered the great damage your argument does to the inner consistency of the narrative of scripture. This is why your argument is that God's sovereign will was for Adam to sin. My question to that is... Then what? I mean, since you seem to believe that that is where God's sovereign will ends, what did God see as coming next? Nothing? Did He shrug and say that He doesn't know either? How could God prophesy to Eve the salvation of humanity, if His sovereign will ended at Adam's sin?
 
Why did God give Adam dominion over all of creation (reread what God said) if God knew Adam was going to sin? Why didn't God wait until after Adam either sinned or didn't sin? (Since you believe Adam had a choice in end state/outcome). Why didn't God, who was there the whole time, intervene? I mean, the sanctity, the purity, the goodness of His handiwork, His creation was at stake. He let Adam hand over the dominion of all creation to God's enemy. Why? What was God's plan/goal in doing so? The very nature of God is in the balance based on your answer. Will you make God human, or allow God to be God, the almighty Creator of heaven and earth? Why would you believe that God, who is the Creator and sustainer of all that is, somehow has no idea what is going on? You claim God is omniscient, however, you wish to claim that God had no clue what Adam would do, because Adam's will trumps God's will, and to argue against that is to make God a sinner.

Let's make this a simple as possible, since you have brought up God's sovereign will and determination. If God's sovereign will is to show grace and mercy to a group of His creation that He chose to adopt as children before the world was formed (Ephesians 1), to immerse them in His awesomeness, and to pour out the richness of who/what He is upon them, then Adam's sin was not only necessary, but required. And beyond that, if God's sovereign will was that His children, and the nations of the world glorify His name (one of the reasons He gave for the destruction and carnage in Egypt), and that when His creation is finally destroyed and recreated, that His children worship and praise Him throughout eternity, Adam's sin was not only necessary, but required. That should not be too difficult for you to understand. You keep denying the context of scripture, and isolate parts. You have not considered the great damage your argument does to the inner consistency of the narrative of scripture. This is why your argument is that God's sovereign will was for Adam to sin. My question to that is... Then what? I mean, since you seem to believe that that is where God's sovereign will ends, what did God see as coming next? Nothing? Did He shrug and say that He doesn't know either? How could God prophesy to Eve the salvation of humanity, if His sovereign will ended at Adam's sin?
Warning—>
Unchecked Copy Box
Gen 2:17 - But of the treeof the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. So you believe it was determined and necessary for Adam to disobey God ? Please show me a scripture that says that it was necessary for Adam to disobey God. Jesus was the Lamb slain from before the foundation of the world nothing surprises God.
 
a) Does God determine the event, knowing the man would choose to sin/cheat?
Yes, but God also determined many other factors that preceded and lead upto this event. God also determined when, where, and how “the man” would come into existence, and to what parents “the man” would be born to, just to mention a few.


OR
b) Does God determine the event and decree/ordain man to sin/cheat?
No. Neither the teacher nor God spoke/commanded the man to sin/cheat, but he did Ultimately Determine those events to occur through other natural means.
OK; some, I think, would state that God decreed/ordained all things including events and sin.
Almost need a score card.
 
OK; some, I think, would state that God decreed/ordained all things including events and sin.
Almost need a score card.

Only Leightonists state that God “decreed/ordained all things” in order to confuse and deceive listeners into believing that is what Calvinists mean when they say God “determined” all things.

To understand the difference we can examine the biblical event of Pharaoh. God did not “decree” or command that Pharaoh disobey His command, but He did determine that Pharaoh disobey his command through natural storyline level means of hardening his heart.

Now that the distinction has been made, to continue to conflate “decree” with “determine” is an obvious evidence of being a Leightonist deceiving people into believing Calvinism is something it’s not.

Don’t be a Leightonist.
 
Only Leightonists state that God “decreed/ordained all things” in order to confuse and deceive listeners into believing that is what Calvinists mean when they say God “determined” all things....
Would that not make them Calvinists:

1689 BCF:
3.1._____ God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and
unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass;

WCF:
III.i. God, from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will freely, and unchangeably ordain
whatsoever comes to pass:
 
Would that not make them Calvinists:

1689 BCF:
3.1._____ God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and
unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass;

WCF:
III.i. God, from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will freely, and unchangeably ordain
whatsoever comes to pass:

Of course because unlike a Leightonist they were using it in a Transcendent creative sense (Let there be light) not a Storyline level command sense.

 
And this verse preceded all of that:

“And the LORD said to Moses, “When you go back to Egypt, see that you do before Pharaoh all the miracles that I have put in your power. But I will harden his heart, so that he will not let the people go.” (Exo 4:21)

What would it look like from a human perspective when God hardened Pharaoh’s heart? Would it not appear as Pharaoh hardening his own heart?

Before God hardened pharaohs heart He already knew pharaoh would not free them.—>
Unchecked Copy Box
Exo 3:19 - And I am sure that the king of Egypt will not let you go, no, not by a mighty hand.
 
Only Leightonists state that God “decreed/ordained all things”
Of course because unlike a Leightonist they were using it in a Transcendent creative sense (Let there be light) not a Storyline level command sense....
The Leightonists and Calvinists believe that God decrees/ordains all things; except the former do not think transcendently?
If so, how do Leightonists believe?
 
You were never a sinner ? The only reason anyone can be free is because Jesus was crucified to be our sin debt to God, and whom the Lord sets free is free indeed.
All have sinned and those saved will strugggle with sin, as Paul did. We have the imputed righteousnesss of Christ and strength from Christ to overcome as we are being conformed to the image of Christ.

I am not God. I'm one who trusts Him and His word:

1 John 5:4
For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

I can thank God for limited vision to read His word and for the amount of understanding that He gives.
 
First off that is not my post. Second, your reasoning isn't valid and doesn't answer my question. You're pretending that God isn't omniscient.
if you read post # 37 it sure looks like you posted the question, and my answer is valid have you ever read the book of Job ? God absolutely let Satan test Job.
 
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