Heaven and Hell: A History of the Afterlife

Keep smoking that whiskey bud! It's obviously destroying your mind.
Says the guy who thinks that:
"I changed my mind to agree with God's word on all things that He says matters"
is compatible with a claim to think for himself...


Not to mention, this is the same guy who thinks that treeplanter is a tyrant on the basis of:
"I think that SteveB is wrong and I am going to try to convince him to change his mind"

but denies that YHVH is a tyrant despite saying:
"If you don't change your mind to automatically agree with me on all things that I say matters then you will go to Hell where you will be burned and tortured for eternity"
 
None of that brain fart above shows anybody how your chosen eschatology is true. You were schooled in the Bible on that count - by me - the one who never reads it I guess.

Thankfully, it doesn't require our approval for God to have given it to us.
Furthermore, I'm finding this comment by you utterly hilarious.
A guy who is deliberately choosing to send himself to hell, by refusing to believe in Jesus, thinking that he understands the truth regarding eternity.


And nothing your posting has demonstrated that you're going to succeed in staving off your descent into Hades.

Turn to YHVH from your sin and place your trust in Jesus.
He's the only one who has what we all need to escape the consequences of our respective sin.
 
Not sure what you were attempting to accomplish with that bible-bomb...
Thinking that you would slow down and make the effort to read what the context states, so you can gain a greater understanding of what Jesus is say.

It clearly states: "Most certainly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all things are accomplished. 33 Heaven and earth will pass away,” all within the proper context of the entire Chapter
i never thought otherwise.
the part you're clearly ignoring is the parable of the fig tree and the historical context of the fig tree to the Israeli people, who were his listeners at the time he have that lecture.


The rest of the post is you artificially pumping yourself up... rather sad and uncomfortable to read... seems desperate, lonely, “I like me!!! Who do you like?!!!
So far the only one I'm seeing who is pumping himself up is you.
Remember, you're the one who is claiming to be schooling me.
 
Thinking that you would slow down and make the effort to read what the context states, so you can gain a greater understanding of what Jesus is say.


i never thought otherwise.
the part you're clearly ignoring is the parable of the fig tree and the historical context of the fig tree to the Israeli people, who were his listeners at the time he have that lecture.
But of course you can’t tell anyone here why the parable of the fig tree changes the timeline Jesus clearly made for all things to come to pass.... one generation.

Making scriptural labyrinths that lead nowhere with no explanations as to their relevancy only buys you a little time before you end up at your usual scriptural dead end. I however already know you are there.
 
Says the guy who thinks that:
"I changed my mind to agree with God's word on all things that He says matters"
is compatible with a claim to think for himself...
🤣😎
So your problem is that you resent that I'm enjoying perfect peace, and am constantly increasing in understanding, wisdom awareness YHVH's grace and love for all, through Jesus Christ?
Sounds like you need to get a life.
Being envious is not a healthy thing.

The great news is that YHVH is ready, able and willing to take your sin, and the load you're hauling around, which is eating away at your inner mind.
Jesus said
Mat 11:28-30 WEB 28 “Come to me, all you who labor and are heavily burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart; and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”

don't destroy yourself by refusing to come to Jesus.

Not to mention, this is the same guy who thinks that treeplanter is a tyrant on the basis of:
"I think that SteveB is wrong and I am going to try to convince him to change his mind"
Yep. Because I've repeatedly explained to you why you're wrong, but you keep harping away as if you think acting like a harpee is going to change it.

but denies that YHVH is a tyrant despite saying:
"If you don't change your mind to automatically agree with me on all things that I say matters then you will go to Hell where you will be burned and tortured for eternity"
Never actually said that. But, I suppose this just gives further credence to my view that you're a tyrannical madman.
 
🤣😎
So your problem is that you resent that I'm enjoying perfect peace, and am constantly increasing in understanding, wisdom awareness YHVH's grace and love for all, through Jesus Christ?
Nope, my problem is that you derive your morality from an immoral source

And this is a problem given that I must share this earth with you

Yep. Because I've repeatedly explained to you why you're wrong, but you keep harping away as if you think acting like a harpee is going to change it.
I'm a tyrant because you have told me that I am wrong and I keep trying, anyway, to convince you that it's you who is wrong???

Have I not repeatedly explained to you why you are wrong, but you keep harping away as if you think I am going to change my mind???

SO WHAT?

This does NOT make for a tyrant!

That I continue to try and reason with you so that you willingly change your mind no more makes me a tyrant than does the fact that you continue to try and reason with me makes you a tyrant

Only a moron would think otherwise

Never actually said that. But, I suppose this just gives further credence to my view that you're a tyrannical madman.
Try reading for comprehension and understanding, Steve

I didn't say that you said:

"If you don't change your mind to automatically agree with me on all things that I say matters then you will go to Hell where you will be burned and tortured for eternity"

This is what God says
 
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But of course you can’t tell anyone here why the parable of the fig tree changes the timeline Jesus clearly made for all things to come to pass.... one generation.
It doesn't change anything.
The entire preterist view is wrong from the get go!
Jesus used the parable of the fig tree knowing that his hearers were very familiar with the prophets' discussion and description of the fig tree relating specifically to Israel and its future.

Making scriptural labyrinths that lead nowhere with no explanations as to their relevancy only buys you a little time before you end up at your usual scriptural dead end. I however already know you are there.
Then feel free to stop talking, and read the article and the word study link I gave you.
You clearly believe that you are right, so the information presented should simply affirm your biases, if you are in fact correct.

If not, then you will learn something new.
 
It doesn't change anything.
The entire preterist view is wrong from the get go!
Jesus used the parable of the fig tree knowing that his hearers were very familiar with the prophets' discussion and description of the fig tree relating specifically to Israel and its future.


Then feel free to stop talking, and read the article and the word study link I gave you.
You clearly believe that you are right, so the information presented should simply affirm your biases, if you are in fact correct.

If not, then you will learn something new.
I understand the symbolism of the fig tree. It doesn’t change the timeline Jesus gave us at all. And you get no argument from me that the preterits view is wrong. Again you are just throwing irrelevant wads of Steve’s wet toilet paper out like chaff to see if something sticks and makes you sound smart and we won’t eventually arm-bar you like we always do.

What you are trying to do is establish the signs as dictating the timeline. It doesn’t work that way scholar. The signs are to be realized in the timeline Jesus gave. It is very clear... Did you read the Bible ever?

Again, your vague goose chase ended up in the same usual place..... nowhere.
 
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Nope, my problem is that you derive your morality from an immoral source
Then under no circumstances whatsoever can you be wrong.
In which case, I'm good.
You've simply demonstrated that you have chosen to be irrelevant.
And this is a problem given that I must share this earth with you
No you don't.
If however your ego is so huge that one person out of 8 billion other people is preventing you from living the life you want to live, then I'd say that your ego is too big for even you.
And I have repeatedly explained to you why you are wrong, but you keep harping away as if you think I am going to change my mind
I'm not the one harping.
I'm simply stating fact.
what you do with those facts is entirely on your own shoulders.

SO WHAT?

This does NOT make for a tyrant!
sure it does.
you are clearly too fragile to realize that you lost long before either of us showed up on this forum.
and it's likely you lost before you were born.
so, yeah....
You're clearly a tyrannical madman who is terrified of being wrong.
That I continue to try and reason with you so that you willingly change your mind no more makes me a tyrant than does the fact that you continue to try and reason with me makes you a tyrant
The difference is...
your eternity is going to be what you want for yourself.


Only a moron would think otherwise
sounds like you're imposing your beliefs on me again.

Try reading for comprehension and understanding, Steve
I do, daily. It's the only way I know how to live on planet earth.

I didn't say that you said:

"If you don't change your mind to automatically agree with me on all things that I say matters then you will go to Hell where you will be burned and tortured for eternity"

This is what God says
Sounds like you are lacking reading comprehension.

He never said that.

I have a great idea for you.

Read the bible for the purpose of learning, understanding and awareness, and if that statement is in there.... I guarantee you will find it.
Then you can show me.
 
He never said that.
Really, Steve?

God never said that if we don't accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior
{i.e. agree with Him on all things that matter}
we will go Hell???

Hmm...if that's the case then almost every single one of your interminable posts is a lie - given that almost every single one entails you exhorting us to come to Jesus in order to avoid an eternity of unimaginable suffering

PS
The avalanche of stupidity that is every single one of your posts is just too much to deal with so I will, henceforth, pick out just one inanity to address
 
I understand the symbolism of the fig tree.
Apparently not. Because your statement below, and previously demonstrates that under no circumstances whatsoever will you acknowledge that preterism is wrong.

It doesn’t change the timeline Jesus gave us at all.
not HIS timeline.
it changes YOUR views of hus timeline.
His timeline is in the Father's authority, exactly as he stated in Acts 1:7.

Act 1:7 WEB He said to them, “It isn’t for you to know times or seasons which the Father has set within his own authority.

He further stated
Mat 24:36 WEB “But no one knows of that day and hour, not even the angels of heaven, but my Father only.


Don't worry though. None of us knows when Jesus is coming.
He told us to make sure that we are ready.
He even gave us the means by which we can make sure that we are ready.

Luk 21:34-36 WEB 34 “So be careful, or your hearts will be loaded down with carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that day will come on you suddenly. 35 For it will come like a snare on all those who dwell on the surface of all the earth. 36 Therefore be watchful all the time, praying that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will happen, and to stand before the Son of Man.”

And you get no argument from me that the preterits view is wrong.
then why are you arguing about it?

Again you are just throwing irrelevant wads of Steve’s wet toilet paper out like chaff to see if something sticks and makes you sound smart and we won’t eventually arm-bar you like we always do.
Gee, that sounds like your gig.
All you've done for the past several days is bit88, whine, moan, and try finding anything that you think will exclude you from experiencing the consequences of your own sin.


What you are trying to do is establish the signs as dictating the timeline.
The law and the prophets took care of that.
Paul states that in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-5:11.

It doesn’t work that way scholar.
are you sure? Because you keep saying that Jesus should have returned by now, and you're clearly stuck on 3 verses, which you think supports your unbelief.
The signs are to be realized in the timeline Jesus gave.
yep.
which he clearly stated is in the Father's authority and timing.

Act 1:7 WEB He said to them, “It isn’t for you to know times or seasons which the Father has set within his own authority.

Mat 24:36 WEB “But no one knows of that day and hour, not even the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

It is very clear... Did you read the Bible ever?
Daily, for a few decades now. Repeatedly, over and over again.
I start in Genesis and read all the way through to Revelation, and then start over again in Genesis.
it's actually an excellent way to learn the bible.
you?
Again, your vague goose chase ended up in the same usual place..... nowhere.
And yet until you repent and believe the gospel of Jesus, you will still perish.
Spending an eternity separated from all that you enjoy in this life.
 
Really, Steve?
The way you worded it-- you're the one who put quotes on it. So... yep! Really.

God never said that if we don't accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior
{i.e. agree with Him on all things that matter}
we will go Hell???
Ah... now you're changing your wording.
Which is it Treeplanter?
Make up your mind and state it clearly.

Hmm...if that's the case then almost every single one of your interminable posts is a lie - given that almost every single one entails you exhorting us to come to Jesus in order to avoid an eternity of unimaginable suffering

I'm wondering if you actually understand grammar.

@treeplanter said:
"If you don't change your mind to automatically agree with me on all things that I say matters then you will go to Hell where you will be burned and tortured for eternity"

This is what God says


Look at what you posted. You put quotes around the statement, and then stated that "this is what God says"

God doesn't say what you quote him as saying.

He says that unless you repent, and believe the gospel you will perish.




PS
The avalanche of stupidity that is every single one of your posts is just too much to deal with so I will, henceforth, pick out just one inanity to address
The only one demonstrating stupidity here is your bad grammar.
 
I'm not the one who needs the gospel to be a false narrative to excuse yourself from culpability for your sin to escape the consequences for your sin.
...
But "culpability for your sin" has nothing to do with it!

It is God choosing to punish you by torturing you forever for rejecting him (if your dubious interpretation of scripture is right). Nothing to do with sin, Steve. You know that. Every post you make is telling us to turn to Jesus, not to stop sinning.
 
...
From what I've read, Bart left because he couldn't handle the pain of the people who are perishing in their sin.

For some reason, he decided that it's better to perish with the unrighteous, than to preach Jesus, so the unrighteous can receive eternal life through repentance and faith in Jesus.
God for him. Most Christians seem perfectly happy to believe their God is punishing billions by inflicting severe pain on them (they object if it is called "torture", but no objection to him actually doing it).
 
it changes YOUR views of hus timeline.
His timeline is in the Father's authority, exactly as he stated in Acts 1:7.

Act 1:7 WEB He said to them, “It isn’t for you to know times or seasons which the Father has set within his own authority.

He further stated
Mat 24:36 WEB “But no one knows of that day and hour, not even the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Luk 21:34-36 WEB 34 “So be careful, or your hearts will be loaded down with carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that day will come on you suddenly. 35 For it will come like a snare on all those who dwell on the surface of all the earth. 36 Therefore be watchful all the time, praying that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will happen, and to stand before the Son of Man.”

which he clearly stated is in the Father's authority and timing.

Act 1:7 WEB He said to them, “It isn’t for you to know times or seasons which the Father has set within his own authority.

Mat 24:36 WEB “But no one knows of that day and hour, not even the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
The followers of Jesus were told to totally divest of earthly things - work, family, possessions, and follow him - because Jesus said the time was imminent and they didn’t need that stuff where they were headed - soon. So they stand before him, divested, poor, probably hungry too, begging for sustenance like Jesus... following from town to town because he was now the fish and loaves maker.... where else are they going to even get food? They abandoned their fields and nets and homes at his insistence. So they simply asked...., “when?”

Obviously Jesus didn’t know the hour or minute, but as your Luke scripture above infers, the Son of Man referred to in Daniel was coming to their town soon so you better not pout, your better not cry.

Jesus relents to the pressure... I’m sure some were getting pretty pissed off by then. They sold everything and lived like Heaven’s Gate cultists on the periphery of society. He had to say in your lifetime or their sacrifices were meaningless. And on the cross - I won’t say he was forsaken - he was simply mistaken.

The rest is the usual growth of supernatural mythology that grows over time in superstitious cult minds looking for supernatural signs, something that has happened thousands of times since as cults give rise to their “my prophet is better than your prophet” escalations. They were still waiting by the time John was written... and we see the rhetorical escalation in how Jesus was represented by then. Jesus never claimed he was God himself in the synoptics.

As far as preterism... I’m claiming NONE of it has happened or ever will.
 
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The followers of Jesus were told to totally divest of earthly things - work, family, possessions, and follow him - because Jesus said the time was imminent and they didn’t need that stuff where they were headed - soon.

BECAUSE?

One good thing about reading your stuff. You usually start your posts out with something so obviously erroneous that knowing how your error will probably be the basis for all that follows, it obviates any further reading.

Jesus never preached that the impending, imminent end of the age was the reason for disdaining material things. I myself disdain them, but highly doubt He'll be returning in my lifetime.
 
But "culpability for your sin" has nothing to do with it!
It has everything to do with it.

It is God choosing to punish you by torturing you forever for rejecting him (if your dubious interpretation of scripture is right). Nothing to do with sin, Steve. You know that. Every post you make is telling us to turn to Jesus, not to stop sinning.
Keep telling yourself that. It'll be exactly why you will spend your eternity separated from God.

Jesus died to save us from our sin and the consequences for our sin.

He's the only one who has the power and wherewithal to free us from our sin.



As it's written,

Joh 1:10-14 WEB 10 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, and the world didn’t recognize him. 11 He came to his own, and those who were his own didn’t receive him. 12 But as many as received him, to them he gave the right to become God’s children, to those who believe in his name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 The Word became flesh and lived among us. We saw his glory, such glory as of the only born Son of the Father, full of grace and truth.

Apart from the power of the resurrection and the new birth, it's impossible to not sin.

So, just saying to you- stop sinning, is like telling a scorpion to stop being a scorpion, and stinging others.

So, yes.
Turn to YHVH from your sin and place your trust in Jesus.

He will give you the power and wherewithal to stop sinning and live a new, godly, and empowered life.
 
God for him.
Actually not! He's only ensuring that which he despises takes place to him, and those who believe he is right.
Most Christians seem perfectly happy to believe their God is punishing billions by inflicting severe pain on them (they object if it is called "torture", but no objection to him actually doing it).
nope!

God's displeasure with it is exactly why he sent Jesus to die, and then raised him from the dead.....

To save everyone who believes in Jesus.


If we were perfectly happy with it, we'd never say a word, and let you go.

It's the fact that we're pleading with you to turn to YHVH from your sin and place your trust in Jesus, that shows....

We are not happy about it, and want to get as many people as possible to escape it.
 
BECAUSE?

One good thing about reading your stuff. You usually start your posts out with something so obviously erroneous that knowing how your error will probably be the basis for all that follows, it obviates any further reading.

Jesus never preached that the impending, imminent end of the age was the reason for disdaining material things. I myself disdain them, but highly doubt He'll be returning in my lifetime.
Just read Luke Chapter 12 verse 22 on and try and keep a straight face in an attempt to defend your response above.
 
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