preacher4truth
Well-known member
Conditional election is merited election.
Your election is made certain only through your diligence of "your" faith, moral excellence, knowledge, self-control, godliness, etc... (2 Pet 1-11).
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preacher4truth
Well-known member
Anti-Calvinists have always believed their faith comes prior to salvation though.
TibiasDad
Well-known member
God sets the rules, the protocol for how he saves; the conditions under which he chooses to be gracious to us. The act of faith is not meritorious and does not mean we are now deserving; it only means that our faith is expressed in obedience and that God counts as righteousness and acts graciously to save us.
All Grace, no merit, no deserving.
Doug
Reformedguy
Well-known member
Is faith a gift of God?
preacher4truth
Well-known member
I want everyone to see in the above the destruction of Biblical grace as this poster is making grace into merit by his own teachings.
Biblical grace is unmerited favor, Doug is saying it is merited by asserting it is given due to meeting conditions.
That's comopletely false, none can meet any condition because grace is unmerited favor.
He is preaching a false Gospel message.
lolzzz...
TibiasDad
Well-known member
This is irrelevant to the point I'm making. Again, grace is undeserved favor, and salvation is by grace, which means that salvation is always undeserved, period, drop the mic, exit stage left! Nothing I do can ever make me deserving of salvation! So whether faith is a gift, in the sense that you identify it, or not is irrelevant, because this doesn't change the fact that I am not and never can be deserving of salvation!
Doug
TibiasDad
Well-known member
Which part of my statement, as written, is false? God sets the rules? God sets the protocol for how he saves? God sets the conditions under which he chooses to be gracious to us?
And I have stated nothing different! If you too believe that grace is is unmerited, undeserved favor, then you might be an Arminian!
No, exactly the opposite! I am clearly saying that I can never deserve anything good from God! That nothing I can ever do can, in and of itself, obligate God to do anything good for me! God is Sovereign, and I cannot usurp his authority or cause him to bow to my will! If God responds to us positively, it is only because he chooses and desires to do so not because we want him to!
Non sequitur argument! To meet a condition is not necessarily to merit favor!
God bless you too!
Doug
TibiasDad
Well-known member
I don't recall ever hearing of the term 'Prevenient faith', much less admitting to it! Good to see you around the forum, by the way!
Doug
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Reformedguy
Well-known member
Actually it's not. Your dodging the question says it all.
No verse clearly notes saving faith is a gift God unilaterally grants to some while withholding it from others
and this refutes that idea
John 12:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
Reformedguy
Well-known member
Ephesians 2:8,9
sorry the words gift of faith do not appear there
so you are reading your theology into scripture
Reformedguy
Well-known member
Neither do the words "your faith". So your reading Provisionist stupidity into the scripture.
Really?
"your faith" in KJV 1900
Matthew 9:29
Then touched he their eyes, saying, According to your faith be it unto you.
Luke 8:25
And he said unto them, Where is your faith? And they being afraid wondered, saying one to another, What manner of man is this! for he commandeth even the winds and water, and they obey him.
Romans 1:8
First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.
1 Corinthians 2:5
That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
1 Corinthians 15:14
And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
1 Corinthians 15:17
And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
2 Corinthians 1:24
Not for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your joy: for by faith ye stand.
2 Corinthians 10:15
Not boasting of things without our measure, that is, of other men’s labours; but having hope, when your faith is increased, that we shall be enlarged by you according to our rule abundantly,
Ephesians 1:15
Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,
Philippians 2:17
Yea, and if I be offered upon the sacrifice and service of your faith, I joy, and rejoice with you all.
Colossians 1:4
Since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the love which ye have to all the saints,
Colossians 2:5
For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ.
1 Thessalonians 1:8
For from you sounded out the word of the Lord not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but also in every place your faith to God-ward is spread abroad; so that we need not to speak any thing.
1 Thessalonians 3:2
And sent Timotheus, our brother, and minister of God, and our fellowlabourer in the gospel of Christ, to establish you, and to comfort you concerning your faith:
1 Thessalonians 3:5
For this cause, when I could no longer forbear, I sent to know your faith, lest by some means the tempter have tempted you, and our labour be in vain.
1 Thessalonians 3:6
But now when Timotheus came from you unto us, and brought us good tidings of your faith and charity, and that ye have good remembrance of us always, desiring greatly to see us, as we also to see you:
1 Thessalonians 3:7
Therefore, brethren, we were comforted over you in all our affliction and distress by your faith:
1 Thessalonians 3:10
Night and day praying exceedingly that we might see your face, and might perfect that which is lacking in your faith?
2 Thessalonians 1:3
We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is meet, because that your faith groweth exceedingly, and the charity of every one of you all toward each other aboundeth;
James 1:3
Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
1 Peter 1:7
That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
1 Peter 1:9
Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
1 Peter 1:21
Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
2 Peter 1:5
And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
Reformedguy
Well-known member
Lol, we were talking Ephesians 2 remember? Your attention span is not all that great either.
preacher4truth
Well-known member
The objective and sense derived from the OP of this thread solidifies one fact: Man searches out Scripture to give himself credit in his salvation instead of accepting the fact that salvation is 100% of God. It has twisted the Biblical truth of election and has made it dependent, not upon God, but upon man. See that little trick? Don't be deceived.
This all stems from the error of conditional election, which is completely heretical, and is designed to grant man glory.
Biblical salvation begins in God choosing whom He willed to save, choosing them to be in Christ prior to creation; Ephesians 1:4; 1 Thessalonians 1:4; 2 Thessalonians 2:13 &c, to saving them through the work of Christ accomplished some 2000 years ago via the cross and resurrection; Ephesians and Colossians 2.
Now, here is what will take place now as I've asserted. All the Scriptures showing God's Sovereignty in salvation, giving Him all the glory will be denied to give man the glory.
Mark my words, then ask yourselves why man would do this, have an aversion to giving God the glory, and rarely if ever do so. One has even said of Christ "he is a savior." Wow, let that sink in folks. What a denigrating thing to say. Not "He is LORD!" not even "He is the Savior!" but "he is a savior." It is a diffult thing for any anti-Calvinist to give God glory, their entire system points to man. It is humanism.
Anyhow, Soli Deo Gloria!!! (I bet that irks some people)
This all stems from the error of conditional election, which is completely heretical, and is designed to grant man glory.
Biblical salvation begins in God choosing whom He willed to save, choosing them to be in Christ prior to creation; Ephesians 1:4; 1 Thessalonians 1:4; 2 Thessalonians 2:13 &c, to saving them through the work of Christ accomplished some 2000 years ago via the cross and resurrection; Ephesians and Colossians 2.
Now, here is what will take place now as I've asserted. All the Scriptures showing God's Sovereignty in salvation, giving Him all the glory will be denied to give man the glory.
Mark my words, then ask yourselves why man would do this, have an aversion to giving God the glory, and rarely if ever do so. One has even said of Christ "he is a savior." Wow, let that sink in folks. What a denigrating thing to say. Not "He is LORD!" not even "He is the Savior!" but "he is a savior." It is a diffult thing for any anti-Calvinist to give God glory, their entire system points to man. It is humanism.
Anyhow, Soli Deo Gloria!!! (I bet that irks some people)
Reformedguy
Well-known member
SOLA DEO GLORIA!
preacher4truth
Well-known member
Waste of time unless you want to hear a message on humanism.
TibiasDad
Well-known member
Faith is not the object of “the gift of God”. The salvation, which is by grace through faith, is the gift of God.
Doug
Reformedguy
Well-known member
Through faith, not because of faith. It's all the gift including the means. "What do you have you did not revieve"?