Your election is made certain only through your diligence of "your" faith, moral excellence, knowledge, self-control, godliness, etc... (2 Pet 1-11).

Through faith, not because of faith. It's all the gift including the means. "What do you have you did not revieve"?
I agree but that isn't even the main issue because it skips the glaring problem of meeting conditions to receive "grace." The issue starts there, a non-biblical grace that has been merited via conditions. This problem is at the forefront. They've turned unmerited favor into conditional favor.

After this is addressed and agreed upon, then we can move on to faith. Scripture is abundantly clear concerning faith coming not from within, but externally, a supernatural gift of Christ, Romans 10:17 &c.

But I digress, it is highly doubtful they will turn from or even see that their view of grace is merit, even after clearly posting that as their belief, then trying to deny it.
 
Through faith, not because of faith. It's all the gift including the means. "What do you have you did not revieve"?
I didn’t say it was because of faith, in the sense of my actions obligating God to act merely because of what I do. Faith is the means of grace saving us. Faith is necessary, therefore, it is a conditional element in the achievement of my salvation, as is grace. So in the sense that faith and grace are equally indispensable, salvation is also “because” of faith.

But faith is not the means of my powers placing God in a corner, but rather God’s self imposed condition for when he will be gracious toward us.
In other words, it is not us setting the conditions, but God! We don’t/can’t say to God, “you must save us”, for God has no such obligation simply because we think we’ve done something. We can only say I believe that “you will save us” because God, who cannot lie, has said so!

Again, I don’t and can never deserve anything good from God! Nothing I can do, indeed no human action of any kind can make me deserving of his kindness. Grace precludes any power of human origin or will; sovereignty precludes man demanding anything of God or obligating to him because of what we have done.

God grants salvation only because he has promised to do so. All the authority, power, right, and prerogative belong to God alone! He sets faith as the conditional human factor for saving grace to be extended!


Doug
 
I didn’t say it was because of faith, in the sense of my actions obligating God to act merely because of what I do. Faith is the means of grace saving us. Faith is necessary, therefore, it is a conditional element in the achievement of my salvation, as is grace. So in the sense that faith and grace are equally indispensable, salvation is also “because” of faith.

But faith is not the means of my powers placing God in a corner, but rather God’s self imposed condition for when he will be gracious toward us.
In other words, it is not us setting the conditions, but God! We don’t/can’t say to God, “you must save us”, for God has no such obligation simply because we think we’ve done something. We can only say I believe that “you will save us” because God, who cannot lie, has said so!

Again, I don’t and can never deserve anything good from God! Nothing I can do, indeed no human action of any kind can make me deserving of his kindness. Grace precludes any power of human origin or will; sovereignty precludes man demanding anything of God or obligating to him because of what we have done.

God grants salvation only because he has promised to do so. All the authority, power, right, and prerogative belong to God alone! He sets faith as the conditional human factor for saving grace to be extended!


Doug
"the conditional human factor" means what? Where does your faith come from? It's not inherent in fallen humanity is it?
 
"the conditional human factor" means what? Where does your faith come from? It's not inherent in fallen humanity is it?
Acts 16:29–33 (KJV 1900) — 29 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas, 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. 32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house. 33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.

Paul seems to believe man capable of such
 
Acts 16:29–33 (KJV 1900) — 29 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas, 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. 32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house. 33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.

Paul seems to believe man capable of such
"Seems" being the operative word. Seems to you. And you alone. LOL. And of course your question begging ability. Something not hinted at in the text.
 
"Seems" being the operative word. Seems to you. And you alone. LOL. And of course your question begging ability. Something not hinted at in the text.
Hardly

you have to deny the verse and Paul as well

Acts 16:29–34 (KJV 1900) — 29 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas, 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. 32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house. 33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway. 34 And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.

It was something the jailor had to do and did
 
This is irrelevant to the point I'm making. Again, grace is undeserved favor, and salvation is by grace, which means that salvation is always undeserved, period, drop the mic, exit stage left! Nothing I do can ever make me deserving of salvation! So whether faith is a gift, in the sense that you identify it, or not is irrelevant, because this doesn't change the fact that I am not and never can be deserving of salvation!

And here we have a clear textbook case of "cognitive dissonance".
 
I don't recall ever hearing of the term 'Prevenient faith', much less admitting to it! Good to see you around the forum, by the way!


Doug
Thanks. I mostly Lurk and make hit-and-run Posts...

As far as I know, Prevenient faith is My Verbage. I'm trying to point out, that what some people are teaching; is that their Filthy-Rag faith prevenes the Grace of God. Filthy-Rag faith is more of my Verbage, meant to rub faces into the absurdity of a Graceless faith. Prevenient faith is meant to remind the average Christian that Grace is Prevenient; in case they forgot this. It's meant to pit their Fundamental that Grace Prevenes Faith, against their false belief that they enter Grace through Prevenient Filthy-Rag faith...

Keep an eye out for this. I can imagine it's easy to side with other Non-Calvinists, since you are one; but what about when they are against the Fundamentals of the Faith? @travelah
 
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Acts 16:29–33 (KJV 1900) — 29 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas, 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. 32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house. 33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.

Paul seems to believe man capable of such

Only if you reject Paul's teaching in Rom. 3:10-18.
Only if you reject Paul's teaching in Rom. 6:16-18.
Only if you reject Paul's teaching in Rom. 8:7-8.
Only if you reject Paul's teaching in 1 Cor. 2:14.
Only if you reject Paul's teaching in Eph. 2:1.
Only if you reject Paul's teaching in Col. 2:13.

Lurkers, this is something called "proof-texting", when you rip one verse out of context, and ignore the rest of Paul's writings.
 
Only if you reject Paul's teaching in Rom. 3:10-18.
Only if you reject Paul's teaching in Rom. 6:16-18.
Only if you reject Paul's teaching in Rom. 8:7-8.
Only if you reject Paul's teaching in 1 Cor. 2:14.
Only if you reject Paul's teaching in Eph. 2:1.
Only if you reject Paul's teaching in Col. 2:13.

Lurkers, this is something called "proof-texting", when you rip one verse out of context, and ignore the rest of Paul's writings.
that is exactly what you have done

none of those verses state man is unable to believe the revealed gospel

and you just ignored the fact you ran from Col 2:13

which puts remission of sin which requires faith and repentance before being made alive

Why do you quote a verse you run from?

eph 2 in context does the same

Ephesians 2:8 (KJV 1900) — 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

not one shows man unable to believe the revealed gospel as was previously addressed

and you just ignore

John 1:7 (KJV 1900) — 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

John 17:20 (KJV 1900) — 20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

Romans 10:10–17 (KJV 1900) — 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Acts 16:30–31 (KJV 1900) — 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

John 4:39 (KJV 1900) — 39 And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did.

John 4:42 (KJV 1900) — 42 And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.

Matthew 13:20 (KJV 1900) — 20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
 
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that is exactly what you have done

none of those verses state man is unable to believe the revealed gospel

and you just ignored the fact you ran from Col 2:13

which puts remission of sin which requires faith and repentance before being made alive

Why do you quote a verse you run from?

eph 2 in context does the same

Ephesians 2:8 (KJV 1900) — 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

not one shows man unable to believe the revealed gospel as was previously addressed

and you just ignore

John 1:7 (KJV 1900) — 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

John 17:20 (KJV 1900) — 20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

Romans 10:10–17 (KJV 1900) — 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Acts 16:30–31 (KJV 1900) — 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

John 4:39 (KJV 1900) — 39 And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did.

John 4:42 (KJV 1900) — 42 And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.

Matthew 13:20 (KJV 1900) — 20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
"No one can come to Me"



"No one seeks God"

And many more.
 
unless he has heard and learned from God however the truth may have come


nothing states man is unable to believe the revealed gospel
And who is it that gives ears to hear? Eyes to see?

It's not a matter of ability, it's a matter of desire. "no one seeks after God".
 
that does not mean they cannot respond to a God who seeks them

I notice you never have any Scriptures which state, "unbelievers have the ability to respond to a God". You simply ASSUME it and PROJECT it onto Scripture.
 
Thanks. I mostly Lurk and make hit-and-run Posts...

You’re welcome; I’m always glad to interact with you!
As far as I know, Prevenient faith is My Verbage. I'm trying to point out, that what some people are teaching; is that their Filthy-Rag faith prevenes the Grace of God. Filthy-Rag faith is more of my Verbage, meant to rub faces into the absurdity of a Graceless faith. Prevenient faith is meant to remind the average Christian that Grace is Prevenient; in case they forgot this. It's meant to pit their Fundamental that Grace Prevenes Faith, against their false belief that they enter Grace through Prevenient Filthy-Rag faith...
Faith is the conduit of Grace. We access God’s grace through or by means of faith, or from God’s perspective he enacts grace upon us when faith in his promise is, in his judgment, truly expressed.

Whether faith is a filthy rag exercise or not, to me, is irrelevant because that is all we have to offer, and it falls short of his glory. Thus, it is incapable of being meritorious, nor does mean I deserve God’s grace. But God accepts it as righteousness and acts graciously in response and washes it white as snow. It is his grace that effects change, from first to last, and it is by faith in his promises that we live, from first to last!

Keep an eye out for this. I can imagine it's easy to side with other Non-Calvinists, since you are one; but what about when they are against the Fundamentals of the Faith? @travelah

I hold to man’s total dependence upon God’s grace and power for anything truly good and righteous. The seat of our heart, our very being, is corrupted through and through, affecting every impulse and desire and bending it away from the heart and will of God.

I hold that God is sovereign, and no other power that may exist can do anything to usurp, override, or otherwise thwart his authority! Thus, man’s actions are totally impotent to overthrow his authority or purpose!

God is the standard setter; the writer of the rules, the establisher of boundaries, the author and finisher. He establishes the protocols and circumstances under which he chooses to be gracious toward anyone.


Doug
 
sorry you have not shown they are incapable of responding

and scripture shows otherwise
So you EDIT Again. NOWHERE does scripture say God regenerates those who believe. Foot in mouth disease again.
 
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