Jesus pierced, YHWH pierced.

You just aren't getting it. When God became man, he perceived God as other men do.
How can one cener of self consciousness perceive Himself as another center of self consciousness?
He was an authentic man. He wasn't God in a man-suit.
God is immutable. How can God change. Now if God did not change then He was in a man suit.
In John, “ He became flesh and dwelt among us” translate from the word we get tabernacle from, just as God was in the tabernacle in the Desert, so Jesus was in the flesh.
You are thinking of the deity of Christ totally wrong. Do you care to learn, or is it your way or the Trinitarian way of looking at things? There is a third and Biblical way if you are willing to leave the Colossians 2:8 group.
Wrong approach.
"The few alleged proofs/evidences of Jesus being God are based on one-off translations, circumstantial evidence, skewing the semantics of the grammar being used, and interpretation. The Bible doesn't just come out and say "Jesus is God"
Yes, it does, John, 20:,28 Titus 2:13 2 Peter 1:1
at all or in the same way it calls the Father the One true God.
Again, that makes Jesus a false God in John 1:1
 
You seem to be in a chronic case of denial. Very few things you have said are even found in the Bible.

Hebrews 5
7During the days of Jesus’ earthly life, He offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the One who could save Him from death, and He was heard because of His reverence.
COULD save Him from death.
He DIED and was resurrected.
 
You were the one who brought up John 17:3.

I am simply using the same Greek word found in that passage and asking a question based on where it appears in another passage.

Now you want to run and hide.

Heretics are good at doing that.

I keep answering your question. There’s a hierarchy. The head of the church is Christ and the head of Christ is God. Jesus is called Lord for that reason, but the Father is Jesus’ Lord and God and the Father is also our Lord and God.

Mark 12
29Jesus replied, “This is the most important: ‘Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is One.

John 20
17“Do not cling to Me,” Jesus said, “for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go and tell My brothers, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, to My God and your God.’ ”

What you have is called a false dichotomy because it severely limits the available options, hence the premise is false.


Also, language is more complicated than that. This isn’t a game of connect the dots.

The despotés word you seem so happy about applies to human masters in 1 Timothy 6:1. Oops, so much for that idea huh Fred? Better luck next time. :)
 
I keep answering your question. There’s a hierarchy.
That doesn't answer who the only Master (despotēs) of every Christian is.


The despotés word you seem so happy about applies to human masters in 1 Timothy 6:1. Oops, so much for that idea huh Fred? Better luck next time. :)

Pathetic.

Who is the only Master (despotēs) of every Christian?

See the past three words of the question above and think about it.

There is only one despotēs who is the despotēs of every Christian.

Go ahead and specify who it is.
 
That doesn't answer who the only Master (despotēs) of every Christian is.




Pathetic.

Who is the only Master (despotēs) of every Christian?

See the past three words of the question above and think about it.

There is only one despotēs who is the despotēs of every Christian.

Go ahead and specify who it is.


I thought you were good at connecting the dots. 1 Timothy 6:1 proves that Christians can possibly have a human despotés which rules it out as being exclusive to deity. So your point falls flat. Furthermore, the very verse you made reference to, Jude 4, has God and Jesus as two separate persons. :oops:

Jude 4
4For certain men have crept in among you unnoticed—ungodly ones who were designated long ago for condemnation. They turn the grace of our God into a license for immorality, and they deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

That means you're reading it wrong. I have rarely seen such invincible ignorance than what has accumulated in this thread and you all seem to love it. The more I reply the deeper you dig and it seems to never stop.
 
Greetings again Towerwatchman,
Make is plural.
Yes, and this fits neatly into how I understand Genesis 1:26-27 and Psalm 8:5 and seems to dismiss and disagree with your reasoning and statements:
Genesis 1:26–27 (KJV): 26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
v26 The One God, Yahweh; said is singular, agreeing with the fact that it is the One God speaking, not three Gods speaking to each other.
Let us make: The One God invites the Angels to make man; us, make, our, our are plural agreeing with the fact that both God and the Angels will make man in the image and after the likeness of God and the Angels.
v27: God created, his. he, he; created, his, he, he here are singular speaking of the One God, Yahweh.

Psalm 8:4–6 (KJV): 4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? 5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels (Elohim), and hast crowned him with glory and honour. 6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:
Vv4-6: Thou, thou, thou is the One God Yahweh, God the Father, not one member of the Trinity, Lower than the Angels (Elohim) is a summary of Genesis 1:26-27 showing that the Angels participated in making man in the Image and after the Likeness of God and the Angels.

Kind regards
Trevor[/COLOR]
 
Greetings again Towerwatchman,

Yes, and this fits neatly into how I understand Genesis 1:26-27 and Psalm 8:5 and seems to dismiss and disagree with your reasoning and statements:
Genesis 1:26–27 (KJV): 26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
v26 The One God, Yahweh; said is singular, agreeing with the fact that it is the One God speaking, not three Gods speaking to each other.
Let us make: The One God invites the Angels to make man; us, make, our, our are plural agreeing with the fact that both God and the Angels will make man in the image and after the likeness of God and the Angels.
v27: God created, his. he, he; created, his, he, he here are singular speaking of the One God, Yahweh.

Psalm 8:4–6 (KJV): 4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? 5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels (Elohim), and hast crowned him with glory and honour. 6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:
Vv4-6: Thou, thou, thou is the One God Yahweh, God the Father, not one member of the Trinity, Lower than the Angels (Elohim) is a summary of Genesis 1:26-27 showing that the Angels participated in making man in the Image and after the Likeness of God and the Angels.

Kind regards
Trevor[/COLOR]
If you are using Ps 8:5 to define Elohim and Us to refer to God and the angles, and use the plural verb as support. Then by logic in vs 27 we should find plurality in the verbs. Note the three verbs for create are singular.
If Elohim is singular in Vs 27 then by logic Us cannot include angels.
You can’t play both sides.
 
I thought you were good at connecting the dots. 1 Timothy 6:1 proves that Christians can possibly have a human despotés


This was already addressed so there is no need for me to read the rest of your drivel.

There is only one who is the despotēs of every Christian.
A believer may or may not have more than one, but every believer has the same one.

Who is it?
 
How can one cener of self consciousness perceive Himself as another center of self consciousness?

God is immutable. How can God change. Now if God did not change then He was in a man suit.
In John, “ He became flesh and dwelt among us” translate from the word we get tabernacle from, just as God was in the tabernacle in the Desert, so Jesus was in the flesh.

Wrong approach.

Yes, it does, John, 20:,28 Titus 2:13 2 Peter 1:1

Again, that makes Jesus a false God in John 1:1

Both you and Runningman conceptually think of the nature of God in nearly the same way. In practical terms your view of God is that he does one or two things at a time, and is not truly omniscient, omnipotent and everywhere present. You are in the Colossians 2:8 group of thinking of God, therefore you can't conceive of what a consciousness is like other than your own sort of way of doing things. That the Holy Spirit communicates through 120 simultaneously in ACTS 2, goes right over your head.
 
How can one cener of self consciousness perceive Himself as another center of self consciousness?

God is immutable. How can God change. Now if God did not change then He was in a man suit.
In John, “ He became flesh and dwelt among us” translate from the word we get tabernacle from, just as God was in the tabernacle in the Desert, so Jesus was in the flesh.

Wrong approach.

Yes, it does, John, 20:,28 Titus 2:13 2 Peter 1:1

Again, that makes Jesus a false God in John 1:1
You are mixing runningman's comments with mine and attributing his comments to me. That's either sloppy or dishonest. Please issue a correction. Thank you
 
Both you and Runningman conceptually think of the nature of God in nearly the same way.
Plse don’t put me in the same category as that man. We are not the same.
In practical terms your view of God is that he does one or two things at a time, and is not truly omniscient, omnipotent and everywhere present.
Never wrote that.
You are in the Colossians 2:8 group of thinking of God, therefore you can't conceive of what a consciousness is like other than your own sort of way of doing things. That the Holy Spirit communicates through 120 simultaneously in ACTS 2, goes right over your head.
Now here comes the insult. Come to think of it you and Running man act like identical twins. I’ll say the same to you as I said to him come back when you have something with meat on it.
 
You are mixing runningman's comments with mine and attributing his comments to me. That's either sloppy or dishonest. Please issue a correction. Thank you
I should issue a correction? I suggest you learn how to post. If you’re quoting someone, make sure it’s in quotes, as above. Go back and read your post, everything I answered you presented as your material. So maybe you should stop being sloppy or dishonest. An issue a correction.
 
I should issue a correction? I suggest you learn how to post. If you’re quoting someone, make sure it’s in quotes, as above. Go back and read your post, everything I answered you presented as your material. So maybe you should stop being sloppy or dishonest. An issue a correction.
You mixed my quotes of runningman and attributed them to me.
 
Plse don’t put me in the same category as that man. We are not the same.

Never wrote that.

Now here comes the insult. Come to think of it you and Running man act like identical twins. I’ll say the same to you as I said to him come back when you have something with meat on it.

Where was the center of consciousness of the Holy Spirit located as the Spirit gave utterance in each of the 120 believers on the days of Pentecost (Acts 2:1-6)
 
You mixed my quotes of runningman and attributed them to me.
Highlighted, below is what I answered from your post. Following the establish format, it should be your material. I mixed nothing up. You were sloppy.





You just aren't getting it. When God became man, he perceived God as other men do.
He was an authentic man. He wasn't God in a man-suit.
You are thinking of the deity of Christ totally wrong. Do you care to learn, or is it your way or the Trinitarian way of looking at things? There is a third and Biblical way if you are willing to leave the Colossians 2:8
group.

"The few alleged proofs/evidences of Jesus being God are based on one-off translations, circumstantial evidence, skewing the semantics of the grammar being used, and interpretation. The Bible doesn't just come out and say "Jesus is God"
at all or in the same way it calls the Father the One true God.
So these isolated incidents of alleged proofs/evidences of Jesus being God are tiny islands in a sea of opposing data."

That is not correct.

There are plenty of scriptures that clearly teach Jesus is God. What you are confused about is that the Bible also teaches he is a man and it is important to do so because of its necessity for our Salvation. That he was a man had to differentiated from his deity, to make no mistake as to what God did for us by dying on the cross and shedding his blood. God, as Spirit can't shed blood and that is why the Bible must and does speak of God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ or God and the Lamb. To minimize his humanity by only emphasizing his deity, would leave people confused about their salvation and the true nature of his sacrifice.

I could go down a very long list of scriptures that speak to the deity of Christ, but you don't accept it. Even beyond scriptures that say "Jesus is God", I gave you Revelation 1:17 where he has the title of "the first and the last". You totally convoluted the meaning of Jesus' parable about the first being last and the last being first and you ascribed to Pharisees and hostile religious leaders the title of "the first and the last" as if that title could apply to anyone.
 
Greetings again Towerwatchman,
If you are using Ps 8:5 to define Elohim and Us to refer to God and the angles, and use the plural verb as support. Then by logic in vs 27 we should find plurality in the verbs. Note the three verbs for create are singular.
If Elohim is singular in Vs 27 then by logic Us cannot include angels.
You can’t play both sides.
Perhaps you do not appreciate that Elohim can sometimes represent God, that is the One God, Yahweh, God the Father and on other occasions such as Psalm 8:5 it is speaking about the Angels.

Kind regards
Trevor
 
Greetings again Towerwatchman,

Perhaps you do not appreciate that Elohim can sometimes represent God, that is the One God, Yahweh, God the Father and on other occasions such as Psalm 8:5 it is speaking about the Angels.

Kind regards
Trevor
Nothing in my post states that I disagree with this.
 
This was already addressed so there is no need for me to read the rest of your drivel.

There is only one who is the despotēs of every Christian.
A believer may or may not have more than one, but every believer has the same one.

Who is it?
You still aren't getting what I am saying.

1 Timothy 6:1 shows that Christians can possibly have more than one master.

Jude 4 shows that Jude's talking about at least two (2), or more, people hence why he said "our only master." Jude is referring to a plurality of people, but not saying there is no other master aside from Jesus.

If Jude's group had more than one master, or were owned by someone, or perhaps were prisoners, then they couldn't honestly call Jesus their "only master." Understand? That's why I showed you 1 Timothy 6:1.

What you're wanting Jude 4 to say is "the only master," but it doesn't. Now this has been clearly exegesized. Thanks for sharing, but you aren't reading it correctly as I said. I hoped I could just nudge you and give you hints and you'll figure it out, but you aren't. The point is that Jude 4 isn't proof of Jesus being God, which I guess that's what you were hoping for.
 
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