Is there anyone here who is pro-choice?

Do you have a citation for medicine being the fourth leading cause of death in the US? Like from the CDC?
I've seen it so many times, it seems like it should be common knowledge by now. The CDC does point it out though as well. They actually provide the raw numbers. Some put it as low as 80k just for medical malpractice alone, but others have it well above 300k and into the low 400k's when other factors are added in. They refer to it as "
  • Accidents (unintentional injuries): 173,040"
Which is ridiculously low if they assume anything that happens outside of a hospital.
 
In her case, they should have delivered the baby and done all they could to sustain its life. Though it is not likely that the baby will survive at 17 weeks, giving it every available opportunity to do so is right. Taking its life actively is wrong.
You don't understand.

It is not possible to "deliver a baby" at 17 weeks. There is no "baby" to deliver.

The only way to remove a fetus at 17 weeks is called "abortion." This is the medical term for the removal of a fetus at any point in a pregnancy other than live birth (whether that birth is vaginal or by C-section).

Because doctors cannot perform abortions in Ireland, they were not permitted, legally, to "remove the fetus," even if they stated they were trying to save it. Legally and medically, the procedure was illegal. The law caused multiple deaths: the death of the woman, and the death of every child the couple COULD have had, if they had been allowed to save her.

Here's another example: Ectopic pregnancies. This is when a fertilized egg implants somewhere other than in the womb, such as in the fallopian tubes. There is no way for the fetus to grow and thrive anywhere but the womb. If the woman's body doesn't expel the mass itself, she will die, 100% of the time.

This is usually discovered between 6 and 8 weeks. Sometimes the woman's body expels the mass automatically, and often this happens before the woman even realizes she's pregnant.

Your narrow-minded definitions would have the woman die. That is NOT pro-life. That is anti-science, anti-woman, and immoral. Period.
 
I've seen it so many times, it seems like it should be common knowledge by now. The CDC does point it out though as well. They actually provide the raw numbers. Some put it as low as 80k just for medical malpractice alone, but others have it well above 300k and into the low 400k's when other factors are added in. They refer to it as "
  • Accidents (unintentional injuries): 173,040"
Which is ridiculously low if they assume anything that happens outside of a hospital.

Accidents (unintentional injuries) deaths includes the subcategories Motor Vehicle accidents; Other land transport accidents; Water, air and space, and other unspecified transport accidents and their sequelae; Falls; Accidental discharge of firearms; Accidental drownings and submersion; Accidental exposure to smoke, fire and flames; Accidental poisoning and exposure to noxious substances; Other and unspecified death from accidents and their sequalae as per CDC National Vital Statistic Reports.


Interestingly, you might want this:

 
Accidents (unintentional injuries) deaths includes the subcategories Motor Vehicle accidents; Other land transport accidents; Water, air and space, and other unspecified transport accidents and their sequelae; Falls; Accidental discharge of firearms; Accidental drownings and submersion; Accidental exposure to smoke, fire and flames; Accidental poisoning and exposure to noxious substances; Other and unspecified death from accidents and their sequalae as per CDC National Vital Statistic Reports.
I know which is why I pointed out that the numbers are ridiculously low.
Interestingly, you might want this:

Thanks. There are other sites that have much higher numbers.
 
Pro-choice and pro-abortion are the same. If they want to argue, that means pro-abortion are also deceptive and use word twisting added to their agenda of deception.
 
Western medicine is the fourth leading cause of death in the US.
Source, please.

Big Pharma's pills are killing people left and right and the media is silent.
Source, please.

The media is pro choice.
Some media are pro-choice, some are anti-choice, and some remain neutral.

The media is for abortion regardless of the consequences.
This is patently false.

The media doesn't report news. They are only there to promote propaganda.
This is false by definition.

First of all, you're extremely confused, because you think "the media" is singular. As if there is a single source out there that does only one thing, and answers to only one owner, and has only one purpose. This is simply a misunderstanding of the word "media." "Media" is plural. The singular is "medium." Even under communism, there are multiple media. In China there are dozens, and that's one of the most controlling governments on the planet.

There are several media that report news. Some of them are more biased than others.

I will bet you $50 US that your primary source of news is more biased than my primary source of news.


Then there must have been more abortions being performed prior to legalization. We know that's not the case at all.
(1) I was talking about the RATE of death, not the actual number, though I wouldn't be surprised if the actual number went down as well.

(2) It is not true that there would necessarily be fewer deaths just because there would be fewer abortions. For example, Let's take a hypothetical geographical area where abortion was illegal in year A, and say there were 100 abortions performed. 13 of them resulted in the death of the mother, because of unsafe conditions (This is roughly the rate of death from complications from abortion in countries where it is still illegal, according to https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/preventing-unsafe-abortion.) Now let's say in Year A+1, that area made abortion legal, and there are 10x as many abortions: 1,000. Because of safer conditions, only 1 woman died. (That would be more than 10x the typical rate in that situation, according to https://idph.iowa.gov/Portals/1/userfiles/142/Pregnancy Mortality.pdf.) More abortions, fewer deaths. Simple math shows that you are wrong.

(3) It is not necessarily true that there were fewer abortions before legalization than after. I wouldn't be surprised if that were the case, but I also wouldn't say it is absolutely the case. In some cases, abortions increase when restrictions are placed. Abortions increase when financial hardships increase, and decrease when financial hardships decrease. If abortion were made illegal at the same time as other factors (say, hypothetically, some horrific pandemic) that caused massive unemployment, abortions would increase regardless of their legality. Likewise, if abortions were made legal, and all of a sudden something happened that caused an amazing financial boon (such as the end of a costly global war or something), abortions would decrease. People don't care about whether something is legal or not when they're starving.
 
Source, please.


Source, please.


Some media are pro-choice, some are anti-choice, and some remain neutral.
My bad. I should have said "the mainstream media" ABC, CBS, FOX, CNBC, etc.
This is patently false.


This is false by definition.
True in practice
First of all, you're extremely confused, because you think "the media" is singular. As if there is a single source out there that does only one thing, and answers to only one owner,
Conan O'Brien famously showed that they all follow the EXACT same script. He came close to losing his job, but the Deep State isn't so deep anymore, so no one really cares anymore. He, and others documented quite clearly that newscasters are all reading from the exact same script. From national to local news, they are all told what to report. Go to youtube, (345) Conan O'Brien Proves American Media his Biggest JOKE - YouTube
In China there are dozens, and that's one of the most controlling governments on the planet.
There is no effective difference. Just because the government controls the media in China doesn't mean they're any more controlling than global corporations who control what you see or hear. Look at the blatant censorship evident from Big Tech giants like Facebook, Twitter, Youtube, Google, etc. if the government was openly doing this, you would see the problem. Just because we live in a corporatocracy doesn't change the effect. Social control is just as bad here as it is there. There are some exceptions, but for the most part, people are still out of work because they had to close their businesses over a virus that is no worse than the seasonal flu. People can't even post information from the CDC if it doesn't fit the approved narrative.
I will bet you $50 US that your primary source of news is more biased than my primary source of news.
I posted direct quotes from the CDC on craigslist forums and was banned. You $50. US will not be worth anything in very short order. Have you heard anything from your news sources that affirm this self evident fact???
(1) I was talking about the RATE of death, not the actual number, though I wouldn't be surprised if the actual number went down as well.

(2) It is not true that there would necessarily be fewer deaths just because there would be fewer abortions. For example, Let's take a hypothetical geographical area where abortion was illegal in year A, and say there were 100 abortions performed. 13 of them resulted in the death of the mother, because of unsafe conditions (This is roughly the rate of death from complications from abortion in countries where it is still illegal, according to https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/preventing-unsafe-abortion.) Now let's say in Year A+1, that area made abortion legal, and there are 10x as many abortions: 1,000. Because of safer conditions, only 1 woman died. (That would be more than 10x the typical rate in that situation, according to https://idph.iowa.gov/Portals/1/userfiles/142/Pregnancy Mortality.pdf.) More abortions, fewer deaths. Simple math shows that you are wrong.
The simple fact is that there are not 10x as many abortions. There are 10k x as many abortions, and let's face it those who were performing those shoddy abortions are still in business today. They're even selling baby parts. They're in it for the money, not to save lives.
(3) It is not necessarily true that there were fewer abortions before legalization than after
I can't take anything you post seriously anymore.
 
Okay, I lost my temper, and I shouldn't let that happen. I just need to mute.

I wish the real world had a "mute" button.
There is never a need to apologise for sincerity. A dash of real emotion is good for the site, as opposed to the insipid snarky back-biting that is more the norm.

Don't change. Your post is wonderful.
 
The only way to remove a fetus at 17 weeks is called "abortion." This is the medical term for the removal of a fetus at any point in a pregnancy other than live birth (whether that birth is vaginal or by C-section).
Your claim is dishonest and false.
1 D&Cs were performed in Catholic and other hospitals before RoeV Wade,
why don't you know that?
2 D&C is NOT an abortion (D&E)
Since you luv dishonest political sources, you don't know such
3 You have proven you are a SURGERY outsider
4 You have proven you rely on political tripe from PP activists
5 all my sources are Board Certified OB Doc in addition to my credentials.

6 I can name a dozen OB docs who know me and did D&C's before 1973 in hospitals.

You have proven to me you are a medical outsider peddling a political worldview.

The Medical Term D&C is not part of a pro-deather vocabulary

Satan is the father of death and lies

I have not been following this thread but when it was first posted, I suspected it would be packed with false claims. I was correct.
 
Your claim is dishonest and false.
1 D&Cs were performed in Catholic and other hospitals before RoeV Wade,
why don't you know that?
2 D&C is NOT an abortion (D&E)
Since you luv dishonest political sources, you don't know such
3 You have proven you are a SURGERY outsider
4 You have proven you rely on political tripe from PP activists
5 all my sources are Board Certified OB Doc in addition to my credentials.

6 I can name a dozen OB docs who know me and did D&C's before 1973 in hospitals.

You have proven to me you are a medical outsider peddling a political worldview.

The Medical Term D&C is not part of a pro-deather vocabulary

Satan is the father of death and lies

I have not been following this thread but when it was first posted, I suspected it would be packed with false claims. I was correct.
If a pregnancy is terminated prematurely, by whatever means, natural or induced, it is an abortion. The pregnancy is aborted. Everything else you have posted her is likewise shy of reality.

You know absolutely nothing about medicine. I suspect that everything you have ever posted on the subject has been scraped from some dodgy Internet site using key word you don't understand.

Your posts are both original and true. Sadly the (rare) true bits are not original, and the original portions are not true.
 
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