Who is the God of.... Jesus Christ?

Now this is interesting Revelator? I'm going to use the same sort of "inverted" logic you just did when you quoted Jesus using the word "ONLY."

The Apostle John said at John 1:3, "ALL things (does not "all" mean without exception) came into being by Him/Jesus Christ, and "APART" from Him (or WITHOUT Him "NOTHING" has come into being that has come into being." Since this is true, obviously like you said, "There's no wiggle-room to add Two Others!" Really!

Isaiah 44:24, "Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, "I, the Lord, am the maker of "ALL" things, (here again "all" means without exception), Stretching out the heavens BY MYSELF, And spreading out the earth "ALL" alone." (Again "all" means without exception).

Would you mind explaining to all the readers here how you would reconcile the "dilemma" you just put yourself in? And as a side note, I know of no verse or verses in the Bible that says one is to believe in the Trinity. We are required to know who is Jesus Christ and to believe in Him. Just read John 3:16. Does not this make sense Revelator?

IN GOD THE SON,
james
Bumped for Revealator.

In Him,
james
 
John 20: 17- "Go to my brethren and say to them, I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.”

Rev 3:12- "He who conquers, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God; never shall he go out of it, and I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem which comes down from my God out of heaven, and my own new name."
Read up on the Hypostatic union.

Can you tell me who Jesus's biological Father is?
 
Is anyone else the God of this man?

Those are not my words. In fact "You, the only true God" is appositional and the equivalent to an equative statement, the convertible proposition. You = the only true God is the same forward and backwards. This means that the Father exhausts the identification of who owns the title "the only true God."
 
Those are not my words. In fact "You, the only true God" is appositional and the equivalent to an equative statement, the convertible proposition. You = the only true God is the same forward and backwards. This means that the Father exhausts the identification of who owns the title "the only true God."

Yes, the word "only" is really not even required.
 
Jesus isn't a human being.
Yes He is - He has the same body He was resurrected in & will return in that body of flesh & bones -

Luke 24:36-40 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you. But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit. And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.

And He will return in the self-same body He ascended into heaven in -

Acts 1:9-11 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Furthermore, the Apostle Paul refers to His continued humanity -

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Present tense used!

He is the God-Man - from His Incarnation into eternity!!
 
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Jesus said his Father is the ONLY true God...blah, blah, blah

Jesus is ALSO referred to as the "only true God"

1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.


This is the true God.* There has been much difference of opinion in regard to this important passage; whether it refers to the Lord Jesus Christ, the immediate antecedent, or to a more remote antecedent--referring to God, as such. The question is of importance in its bearing on the doctrine of the divinity of the Saviour; for if it refers to him, it furnishes an unequivocal declaration that he is Divine. The question is, whether John meant that it should be referred to him? Without going into an extended examination of the passage, the following considerations seem to me to make it morally certain that by the phrase "this is the true God," etc., he did refer to the Lord Jesus Christ.

(1.) The grammatical construction favours it. Christ is the immediate antecedent of the pronoun this--outoV. This would be regarded as the obvious and certain construction so far as the grammar is concerned, unless there were something in the thing affirmed which led us to seek some more remote and less obvious antecedent. No doubt would have been ever entertained on this point, if it had not been for the reluctance to admit that the Lord Jesus is the true God. If the assertion had been that "this is the true Messiah;" or that "this is the Son of God;" or that "this is he who was born of the Virgin Mary," there would have been no difficulty in the construction. I admit that this argument is not absolutely decisive; for cases do occur where a pronoun refers, not to the immediate antecedent, but to one more remote; but cases of that kind depend on the ground of necessity, and can be applied only when it would be a clear violation of the sense of the author to refer it to the immediate antecedent.

(2.) This construction seems to be demanded by the adjunct which John has assigned to the phrase "the true God"--" ETERNAL LIFE." This is an expression which John would he likely to apply to the Lord Jesus, considered as life, and the source of life, and not to God as such. "How familiar is this language with John, as applied to Christ! 'In him (i.e. Christ) was Life, and the LIFE was the light of men--giving LIFE to the world--the bread of LIFE.--my words are spirit and LIFE --I am the way, and the truth, and the LIFE. This LIFE (Christ) was manifested, and we have seen it, and do testify to you, and declare the ETERNAL LIFE which was with the Father, and was manifested to us,' 1Jo 1:2."--Prof. Stuart's Letters to Dr. Channing, p. 83. There is no instance in the writings of John, in which the appellation LIFE, and eternal Life, is bestowed upon the Father, to designate him as the author of spiritual and eternal life; and as this occurs so frequently in John's writings as applied to Christ, the laws of exegesis require that both the phrase "the true God," and "eternal life," should be applied to him.

(3.) If it refers to God as such, or to the word "true"--ton alhqinon [qeon]--it would be mere tautology, or a mere truism. The rendering would then be, "That we may know the true God, and we are in the true God: this is the true God, and eternal life." Can we believe that an inspired man would affirm gravely, and with so much solemnity, and as if it were a truth of so much magnitude, that the true God is the true God?

(4.) This interpretation accords with what we are sure John would affirm respecting the Lord Jesus Christ. Can there be any doubt that he who said, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God;" that he who said "all things were made by him, and without him was not anything made that was made;" that he who recorded the declaration of the Saviour, "I and my Father are one," and the declaration of Thomas, "my Lord and my God," would apply to him the appellation the true God!

(5.) If John did not mean to affirm this, he has made use of an expression which was liable to be misunderstood, and which, as facts have shown, would be misconstrued by the great portion of those who might read what he had written; and, moreover, an expression that would lead to the very sin against which he endeavours to guard in the next verse--the sin of substituting a creature in the place of God, and rendering to another the honour due to him. The language which he uses is just such as, according to its natural interpretation, would lead men to worship one as the true God who is not the true God, unless the Lord Jesus be Divine. For these reasons, it seems to me that the fair interpretation of this passage demands that it should be understood as referring to the Lord Jesus Christ. If so, it is a direct assertion of his divinity, for there could be no higher proof of it than to affirm that he is the true God. (Barnes Commentary)


"This Jesus (ουτος), in his original nature, is the only living and true God, together with the Father and the Spirit; and he is the purchaser and giver of spiritual and eternal life to all his faithful saints." (Coke's Commentary)
 
...

John 20:17 (...) ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’

...

Notice carefully, Jesus makes a DISTINCTION here - why does He say "My Father/your Father" & "My God/your God" instead of OUR Father/OUR God??

Obviously, the Father is a Father to His only begotten Son in a way different than He is to His followers & God in a sense different from that of the disciples!!!

Since Christ is one with the Father - not JUST in purpose but in His very essence, He voluntarily, as it says in Phil 2, became obedient, a servant, of no reputation, took on human flesh though, in His very nature/essence, He existed forever "in the form of God" but did not hold on to the prerogatives of Deity, "laying aside the symbols or the manifestation of His glory" (Barnes Commentary) for the time He walked the earth. He voluntarily became subordinate to the Father in all things while a man though He was His equal in power, majesty & glory as to His Deity. Ergo, because Jesus became a man, He had a God & that God was His Father - the One Who He said He was one in very nature with - no contradiction exists nor any degradation or lessening of Christ as to His being supreme Deity but, while on earth, was willingly submissive to doing the Father's perfect will - the salvation of all that would come to Him & gain eternal life through His great sacrifice on the Cross!!
 
Yes He is - He has the same body He was resurrected in & will return in that body of flesh & bones -

Luke 24:36-40 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you. But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit. And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
Jesus appearing in the form of a man in no way indicates that he must be a man. He may be, but this is far from a proof.
And He will return in the self-same body He ascended into heaven in -

Acts 1:9-11 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
You appear to take "in like manner" referring to the physical form Jesus had. I understand it referring to the mode of his coming: he left earth in a cloud; he will come back to earth in a cloud.
Furthermore, the Apostle Paul refers to His continued humanity -

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Present tense used!
It is possible that the present tense emphasizes that the redemptive works that Jesus accomplished as a man still serve as the means of arbitration between men and God.
He is the God-Man - from His Incarnation into eternity!!
I appreciate your earnest efforts to grapple with the issue, even if I don't find the matter of great importance. (I don't think God will care if our understanding of himself or his operations is flawed given that we can't comprehend such anyway.) For me, the very last thing you said is especially troublesome. I simply don't see a "God-man" as the equivalent of a "regular" man.
 
Notice carefully, Jesus makes a DISTINCTION here - why does He say "My Father/your Father" & "My God/your God" instead of OUR Father/OUR God??

Obviously, the Father is a Father to His only begotten Son in a way different than He is to His followers & God in a sense different from that of the disciples!!!

Since Christ is one with the Father - not JUST in purpose but in His very essence, He voluntarily, as it says in Phil 2, became obedient, a servant, of no reputation, took on human flesh though, in His very nature/essence, He existed forever "in the form of God" but did not hold on to the prerogatives of Deity, "laying aside the symbols or the manifestation of His glory" (Barnes Commentary) for the time He walked the earth. He voluntarily became subordinate to the Father in all things while a man though He was His equal in power, majesty & glory as to His Deity. Ergo, because Jesus became a man, He had a God & that God was His Father - the One Who He said He was one in very nature with - no contradiction exists nor any degradation or lessening of Christ as to His being supreme Deity but, while on earth, was willingly submissive to doing the Father's perfect will - the salvation of all that would come to Him & gain eternal life through His great sacrifice on the Cross!!
Jesus considered himself as a WORSHIPER of Jehovah, as well as all the Jews of his time, without difference in that sense:

John 4:19 The woman said to him: “Sir, I see that you are a prophet. 20 Our forefathers worshipped on this mountain, but you people say that in Jerusalem is the place where people must worship.” 21 Jesus said to her: “Believe me, woman, the hour is coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father. 22 You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, because salvation begins with the Jews.

When he said WE he was including himself.
 
John 20: 17- "Go to my brethren and say to them, I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.”

Rev 3:12- "He who conquers, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God; never shall he go out of it, and I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem which comes down from my God out of heaven, and my own new name."

Citing His Father as the One in greater authority to Himself as it is the Father's will be done and not the Son's nor the Holy Spirit's, is to be understood that Jesus is not denying Himself as God. There are too many verses citing Jesus as God for you to apply that to mean otherwise.

Did you know that Jesus was the God men had seen in the O.T. ? It wasn't the Father per John 1:18 & John 6:46 as Jesus said no man had seen the Father but He has.

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

John 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.....46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

One example; Jesus testified that Abraham had seen Him and He said He was before Abraham as God the "I AM".

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. 57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. 59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

What day Abraham was glad to see the Lord? I believe it was the day the Lord told Abraham that he will have a child after having eaten & drank in Genesis 18:1-15. He had appeared to Abraham earlier in Genesis 12:7 & Genesis 17:1. The Lord appeared to Isaac in Genesis 26:1-2 & Genesis 26:24. The Lord appeared to Jacob & wrestled with him face to face and Jacob lived per Genesis 32:24-30

So Jesus was the God men had seen in the O.T. BEFORE His incarnation as the Son of Man as Paul explained plainly for you to see.

Ephesians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Reads to me that Jesus is to be worshipped as God to the glory of His Father in Heaven Who is also God.

Ask God for wisdom in rightly dividing the word of truth because scripture cannot go against scripture. Jesus is God but as the position of "father" is to anyone, the Father's will be done is the Son as God accepting His Father's authority as God over Him.
 
Are you asking for the name of Jesus' God? Of course the fly in the ointment is that Jesus has a new name to go along with his God so the question negates itself. The God is Christ is named in the book of Exodus, but in Revelation Christ has a new name to go along with his God which indicates who his God is. Do you know his new name? I think it's also referred to as his secret name. Do you know the secret?

The Old I am Scam.
Jehovah gave us this one a Messiah.
Churchianity reads this as Jesus giving himself a Messiah.

Which am I going to BELIEVE?
 
Citing His Father as the One in greater authority to Himself as it is the Father's will be done and not the Son's nor the Holy Spirit's, is to be understood that Jesus is not denying Himself as God. There are too many verses citing Jesus as God for you to apply that to mean otherwise.

Did you know that Jesus was the God men had seen in the O.T. ? It wasn't the Father per John 1:18 & John 6:46 as Jesus said no man had seen the Father but He has.

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

John 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.....46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

One example; Jesus testified that Abraham had seen Him and He said He was before Abraham as God the "I AM".

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. 57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. 59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

What day Abraham was glad to see the Lord? I believe it was the day the Lord told Abraham that he will have a child after having eaten & drank in Genesis 18:1-15. He had appeared to Abraham earlier in Genesis 12:7 & Genesis 17:1. The Lord appeared to Isaac in Genesis 26:1-2 & Genesis 26:24. The Lord appeared to Jacob & wrestled with him face to face and Jacob lived per Genesis 32:24-30

So Jesus was the God men had seen in the O.T. BEFORE His incarnation as the Son of Man as Paul explained plainly for you to see.

Ephesians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Reads to me that Jesus is to be worshipped as God to the glory of His Father in Heaven Who is also God.

Ask God for wisdom in rightly dividing the word of truth because scripture cannot go against scripture. Jesus is God but as the position of "father" is to anyone, the Father's will be done is the Son as God accepting His Father's authority as God over Him.


Buckshot of standard verses abused by Churchianity.
Want to discuss them one by one?
Trinnies usually don't wanna do that!
 
Citing His Father as the One in greater authority to Himself as it is the Father's will be done and not the Son's nor the Holy Spirit's, is to be understood that Jesus is not denying Himself as God. There are too many verses citing Jesus as God for you to apply that to mean otherwise.

Did you know that Jesus was the God men had seen in the O.T. ? It wasn't the Father per John 1:18 & John 6:46 as Jesus said no man had seen the Father but He has.

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

John 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.....46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

One example; Jesus testified that Abraham had seen Him and He said He was before Abraham as God the "I AM".

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. 57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. 59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

What day Abraham was glad to see the Lord? I believe it was the day the Lord told Abraham that he will have a child after having eaten & drank in Genesis 18:1-15. He had appeared to Abraham earlier in Genesis 12:7 & Genesis 17:1. The Lord appeared to Isaac in Genesis 26:1-2 & Genesis 26:24. The Lord appeared to Jacob & wrestled with him face to face and Jacob lived per Genesis 32:24-30

So Jesus was the God men had seen in the O.T. BEFORE His incarnation as the Son of Man as Paul explained plainly for you to see.

Ephesians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Reads to me that Jesus is to be worshipped as God to the glory of His Father in Heaven Who is also God.

Ask God for wisdom in rightly dividing the word of truth because scripture cannot go against scripture. Jesus is God but as the position of "father" is to anyone, the Father's will be done is the Son as God accepting His Father's authority as God over Him.

Same to YOU!
Care to discuss them one at a time, or are you too tri-faid to?
 
Buckshot of standard verses abused by Churchianity.
Want to discuss them one by one?
Trinnies usually don't wanna do that!
OK you are a Jehovah Witness.


The question is? Why is God a Trinity? What purpose does it serve.
 
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The question is? Why is God a Trinity? What purpose does it serve.
I think it could serve a number of purposes. For example, let's assume a single solitary supreme eternal God. Necessarily we must assume that before this God created anything, he must have been alone for eternity. This isn't a pleasant thought. The ramifications are horrific.

So to ease our distress, we look at God as a plurality.

Another way to look at it is to note that we can't really help think of reality in terms of our own subjective thoughts of the objective world. These two are linked by a copula, and the three together form a trinitarian reality. It is not a far stretch to presume that this mirrors the reality of God as well.

Let's look at the texts themselves. God creates Adam in his image, and Paul points out that Christ is "the image of the invisible god". So for all practical purposes, Christ might as well be God because there is nowhere else in all of creation where one may objectively see God. This doesn't negate the fact that the image of God is his image, and images are not what or who they represent anymore than the mirror which captures your image is you.

So Christ is God and yet he's not as well. The doctrine of the Trinity seems to help us to see reality as it is rather than the illusion we're born into. Again, we can look at our own identity which is nothing more than an abstract construction of the mind. It isn't real. It's just an idea we use to identify ourselves. As closely related as identification is to identity, identification is not identity.

So we have the metaphor of a Son coming from a Father, a vine, a door, a gate, a mediator which is eternal LIFE itself. The fact is that life itself isn't God, but what we attribute to, or originating from God.

This trinitarian aspect to life keeps emerging over and over again so it's not so strange for people to then conclude that God must somehow be a Trinity.

There are two articulations: "God in three persons", and "one in being with the Father". I wholeheartedly agree with the latter and disagree with the former simply because the former is incoherent to begin with because a person (from "persona") is defined as is who or what is presented to the world, and only Christ is presented to the world.

The door, gate, way, mediator, etc. is what or who is presented to the world. it is God personified, but Christ keenly observes that he isn't God, but God's son. Neither the Father, nor the Spirit are ever presented. In fact, the Spirit is never even named, but only given titles.

Again, a persona is defined as "a mask; what is presented to the world", and Jesus is the mask that is removed to reveal the father. There is no point or need for the father to wear a mask as well. It's redundant.
 
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