Pope backs civil unions

that is only one statement in the catechism. in the footnotes there are citations to explain it and unfortunately most of the time are difficult to find. here is a passage from pope leo the great which is read on february 22, the feast of the chair of st. peter... https://www.crossroadsinitiative.com/media/articles/st-peter-and-the-keys-st-leo-the-great/
Thank you for the fallible opinion of pope Leo. Still doesn't change the fact that Matthew 16:18 is where Jesus says he will build his Church on Peter's confession, which agrees with the Catechism and most protestant theologians.
 
I mean keys unlock the door and as has been pointed out Jesus is the door. Every believer has the key to unlock the door it is the gospel message. Unfortunately the RCC likes to burden others and make those keys very heavy. It has nothing to do with the so called Vicar of Christ. Peter was not a pope nor a bishop. He would be appalled that this line of succession has been connected to him, especially when he saw their behaviour.

Let us look at some of what Peter says:

1 Peter 1: 14+

14 As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance. 15 But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; 16 for it is written: “Be holy, because I am holy.”

I think he would say that most of those popes have conformed to evil desires.

17 Since you call on a Father who judges each person’s work impartially, live out your time as foreigners here in reverent fear. 18 For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your ancestors,

Hmm the RCC do not live as foreigners here in reverent fear. The RCC loves perishable things.

1 Peter 2:11+

11 Dear friends, I urge you, as foreigners and exiles, to abstain from sinful desires, which wage war against your soul. 12 Live such good lives among the pagans that, though they accuse you of doing wrong, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day he visits us.

The RCC does not abstain from sinful desires and it known for its sin. It also syncretize with pagan beliefs, even blessing pagan idols.

“He committed no sin,
and no deceit was found in his mouth.”[e]
23 When they hurled their insults at him, he did not retaliate; when he suffered, he made no threats. Instead, he entrusted himself to him who judges justly.


We have seen how some RCs hurl insults at believers. Also the history of the RCC is it made others suffer, hurled insults, put others to death etc. In Peter's writing his focus is Jesus alone, yet the focus of the RCC is Mary, the pope, its false teachings and not Jesus.

Reading just two chapters of Peter's writings you can see how he would have nothing to do with the RCC and its line of succession. He would be appalled by its behaviour and teachings and false focus.
 
Thank you for the fallible opinion of pope Leo. Still doesn't change the fact that Matthew 16:18 is where Jesus says he will build his Church on Peter's confession, which agrees with the Catechism and most protestant theologians.
only the bible is infallible. you are taking pope leo, out of context. pope leo has the same belief as the apostolic church.
 
I mean keys unlock the door and as has been pointed out Jesus is the door. Every believer has the key to unlock the door it is the gospel message. Unfortunately the RCC likes to burden others and make those keys very heavy. It has nothing to do with the so called Vicar of Christ. Peter was not a pope nor a bishop. He would be appalled that this line of succession has been connected to him, especially when he saw their behaviour.

Let us look at some of what Peter says:

1 Peter 1: 14+

14 As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance. 15 But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; 16 for it is written: “Be holy, because I am holy.”

I think he would say that most of those popes have conformed to evil desires.

17 Since you call on a Father who judges each person’s work impartially, live out your time as foreigners here in reverent fear. 18 For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your ancestors,

Hmm the RCC do not live as foreigners here in reverent fear. The RCC loves perishable things.

1 Peter 2:11+

11 Dear friends, I urge you, as foreigners and exiles, to abstain from sinful desires, which wage war against your soul. 12 Live such good lives among the pagans that, though they accuse you of doing wrong, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day he visits us.

The RCC does not abstain from sinful desires and it known for its sin. It also syncretize with pagan beliefs, even blessing pagan idols.

“He committed no sin,
and no deceit was found in his mouth.”[e]
23 When they hurled their insults at him, he did not retaliate; when he suffered, he made no threats. Instead, he entrusted himself to him who judges justly.


We have seen how some RCs hurl insults at believers. Also the history of the RCC is it made others suffer, hurled insults, put others to death etc. In Peter's writing his focus is Jesus alone, yet the focus of the RCC is Mary, the pope, its false teachings and not Jesus.

Reading just two chapters of Peter's writings you can see how he would have nothing to do with the RCC and its line of succession. He would be appalled by its behaviour and teachings and false focus.
here are some examples on what the apostolic church says on the primacy of peter/rome...

Ignatius of Antioch

You [the See of Rome] have envied no one, but others have you taught. I desire only that what you have enjoined in your instructions may remain in force (Epistle to the Romans 3:1 [A.D. 110]).

Irenaeus

… the greatest and most ancient church known to all, founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles. Peter and Paul, that church which has the tradition and the faith which comes down to us after having been announced to men by the apostles. With that church, because of its superior origin, all the churches must agree, that is, all the faithful in the whole world, and it is in her that the faithful everywhere have maintained the apostolic tradition (Against Heresies 3:3:2 [inter A.D. 189]).

Clement of Alexandria

[T]he blessed Peter, the chosen, the preeminent, the first among the disciples, for whom alone with himself the Savior paid the tribute [Matt. 17:27], quickly grasped and understood their meaning. And what does he say? “Behold, we have left all and have followed you” [Matt. 19:2 7, Mark 10:28] (Who is the Rich Man that is Saved? 21:3-5 [A.D. 200]).

Tertullian

[T]he Lord said to Peter, “On this rock I will build my Church, I have given you the keys of the kingdom of heaven [and] whatever you shall have bound or loosed on earth will be bound or loosed in heaven” [Matt. 16:18-19]. … Upon you, he says, I will build my Church; and I will give to you the keys, not to the Church; and whatever you shall have bound or you shall have loosed, not what they shall have bound or they shall have loosed (Modesty 21:9-10 [A.D. 220]).
 
here are some examples on what the apostolic church says on the primacy of peter/rome...

Ignatius of Antioch

You [the See of Rome] have envied no one, but others have you taught. I desire only that what you have enjoined in your instructions may remain in force (Epistle to the Romans 3:1 [A.D. 110]).

Irenaeus

… the greatest and most ancient church known to all, founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles. Peter and Paul, that church which has the tradition and the faith which comes down to us after having been announced to men by the apostles. With that church, because of its superior origin, all the churches must agree, that is, all the faithful in the whole world, and it is in her that the faithful everywhere have maintained the apostolic tradition (Against Heresies 3:3:2 [inter A.D. 189]).

Clement of Alexandria

[T]he blessed Peter, the chosen, the preeminent, the first among the disciples, for whom alone with himself the Savior paid the tribute [Matt. 17:27], quickly grasped and understood their meaning. And what does he say? “Behold, we have left all and have followed you” [Matt. 19:2 7, Mark 10:28] (Who is the Rich Man that is Saved? 21:3-5 [A.D. 200]).

Tertullian

[T]he Lord said to Peter, “On this rock I will build my Church, I have given you the keys of the kingdom of heaven [and] whatever you shall have bound or loosed on earth will be bound or loosed in heaven” [Matt. 16:18-19]. … Upon you, he says, I will build my Church; and I will give to you the keys, not to the Church; and whatever you shall have bound or you shall have loosed, not what they shall have bound or they shall have loosed (Modesty 21:9-10 [A.D. 220]).
So what. Next we will have those who post quotes showing that they did not believe there is primacy. These are just the opinions of fallible men, taken out of context. Scripture tells us to discern the fruit. The fruit of popes is very telling. It shows they are not a rock. Jesus is the rock. He is the door.
 
Kerwyn said:
Thank you for the fallible opinion of pope Leo. Still doesn't change the fact that Matthew 16:18 is where Jesus says he will build his Church on Peter's confession, which agrees with the Catechism and most protestant theologians.
only the bible is infallible. you are taking pope leo, out of context. pope leo has the same belief as the apostolic church.
if you believe that then why do you believe what the RCC teaches instead of what the Bible teaches?

Why do you continually claim men of the RCC (pope, magisterium) are infallible?
 
So what. Next we will have those who post quotes showing that they did not believe there is primacy. These are just the opinions of fallible men, taken out of context. Scripture tells us to discern the fruit. The fruit of popes is very telling. It shows they are not a rock. Jesus is the rock. He is the door.
Actually it was Ignatius that said he (ignatius) did not have the same authority as Peter AND Paul. They cite their pet quotes thinking ALL ecfs believed exactly as they do. Its an incredibly weak argument. And that aint saying much. Because their strongest arguments have nothing behind them but the hope that it is true.
 
... They cite their pet quotes thinking ALL ecfs believed exactly as they do. Its an incredibly weak argument...
That's the trouble with trusting a self-proclaimed, "infallible" authority's proclamations - you wind up with "proof quotes" that anyone who either knows better, or will spend the time to check the quotes, can readily disprove, leaving you looking "reel dumm" ?.

--Rich
 
RiJoRi said:
That's the trouble with trusting a self-proclaimed, "infallible" authority's proclamations - you wind up with "proof quotes" that anyone who either knows better, or will spend the time to check the quotes, can readily disprove, leaving you looking "reel dumm"
They hope their audience never questions them. They came to the wrong place:)
and they just don't answer or they spill out a lot of nonsense while doing the catholic 2 step.
 
Actually it was Ignatius that said he (ignatius) did not have the same authority as Peter AND Paul. They cite their pet quotes thinking ALL ecfs believed exactly as they do. Its an incredibly weak argument. And that aint saying much. Because their strongest arguments have nothing behind them but the hope that it is true.
I knew you would know the truth about them.
 
Sacramental 'gay' marriage will never happen. The Pope was simply proposing a contract to protect a form of union in the legal sense from exploitation, discrimination and the like. Those are issues that impact on the basic human rights of these people.
Lucifer wins again....
 
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