Kenosis Heresy

The Chalcedonian Creed declares "the distinction of natures" and "the property of each nature being preserved".

In other words, the humanity of Jesus is NOT deity.

So when you say this...



Which nature of Jesus "laid aside His rights as Deity"?
I have discussed this with this poster in other forums. He maintains that while Jesus was a man, He was omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent. The poster claimed that you in the trinity forum would agree with him.
 
So John 14:6 clearly reveals the distinction of Persons concerning the Father and Son.
John 14:6 "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."
John 14:6 clearly reveals the ECHAD of God, as "Father", the Ordinal First, and "ME", the Ordinal Last.... my God how hard is it to understand?

John 14:7 "If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him."
John 14:8 "Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us."
John 14:9 "Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?" Oh my God there is that "ME" again.

and I say the same thing, "how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?" ........ :cool: YIKES!.

Oh how TRUE the scriptures are, John 20:28 "And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God."
John 20:29 "Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed."

My Lord and my, yes JESUS, is the Spirit, GOD, in flesh. ... oh how plain the "ECHAD" is so clear. but the scriptures are clear, Isaiah 28:11 "For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people."

do you KNOW what that "ANOTHER TONGUE" is.... answer, Mark 16:17 "And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;" BINGO, and with this NEW TONGUE, LISTEN,

Isaiah 28:13 "But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken." :cool: YIKES!.

ECHAD, oh the ECHAD, must we sing it to you? Revelation 14:3 "And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth."

PICJAG. 101G.
 
That would be all of them. No bible writer in context teaches that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are the one God.

In fact, if you search for the term "One God" you find that the Father is identified as the one God all by Himself.
They all REVEAL The Father, Son, Holy Spirit are The ONE God.
 
ROFLOL, if Paul was speaking of Jesus as being God, he wouldn't even have used the word "isa" or "equal" because he who is equal is not the same being as the one who he is equal unto, for that isn't what the word means and it would then be like saying that Jesus was equal to himself and which is quite redundant.

But those who love ignorance should remain ignorant by all means and they will also.
Sorry but you are using equal in the wrong sense.
God said "There is none like me" ( English Standard Version Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: “I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god).

Paul is saying that Christ is "like" God

6 Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;

Equal as in one, not two individuals who are equal.
 
Sorry but you are using equal in the wrong sense.
God said "There is none like me" ( English Standard Version Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: “I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god).
First off, in what way is God saying that no one is like him?

Let me give you an example of one way and which he (God) himself specifically states it also and in the passage below of Isaiah 46:9-10.

Isaiah 46:9-10

New International Version

9 Remember the former things, those of long ago;
I am God, and there is no other;
I am God, and there is none like me.


10 I make known the end from the beginning,
from ancient times, what is still to come.
I say, ‘My purpose will stand,

and I will do all that I please.’


Now let's see what Jesus himself said and which totally agrees with what God said in the above also.


Matthew 24:36 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

Now, please notice the words of Jesus "but only the Father" period.

For not only did Jesus say that he was not equal unto God here in knowing the end from the Beginning but he totally agreed with God's words about himself in Isaiah 46:9-10, that Only The Father who is The Only True God (John 17:3) does know it.


Therefore, although Jesus was indeed like God in the sense of God's holy character, he wasn't exactly like God in every way and besides this, Paul never said in Philippians 2:6 that Jesus was ever equal "isa" with God to begin with but rather that he Jesus, "took no thought of robbery to exist as equal unto God" instead.


Furthermore, if you look at all of the scriptures where the word "morphe" or its relative words are used and which in the NIV of Philippians 2:6 is translated in the NIV as "nature", the word never means "nature" in regard to the actual substance or ontology but rather only in regards to the characteristics or appearance and that is a fact.


Therefore, just being like God in some ways isn't the same thing as being like God in every way, for God even tells us that we are to be like him in holiness, doesn't he?




Paul is saying that Christ is "like" God

6 Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;

Equal as in one, not two individuals who are equal.
Sorry but the NIV and KJV are both very poor translations of Philippians 2:6.

Furthermore, if Paul was really wanting us to know and believe that Jesus is God who became a man, he just would have stated that plainly and without using words that contradict it like "huparchon", "morphe", "isa" and "homoiomai".


Instead he would have said is something like this below.


"Who although being "eimi" God, did not consider his being "eimi" God, something to glory in but instead he made himself a servant by becoming a human being of flesh and blood".


Notice, there would have been no need at all for the word, "morphe" = "form" or "isa" = "equal" but instead Paul having the genius of the mind of God, would have just said it straight out. "who although existing "eimi" as God, did not consider his existing as God, something to glory in but instead he humbled himself and made himself a servant by becoming a human being".


That simple!
 
First off, in what way is God saying that no one is like him?

Let me give you an example of one way and which he (God) himself specifically states it also and in the passage below of Isaiah 46:9-10.

Isaiah 46:9-10

New International Version

9 Remember the former things, those of long ago;
I am God, and there is no other;
I am God, and there is none like me.


10 I make known the end from the beginning,
from ancient times, what is still to come.
I say, ‘My purpose will stand,

and I will do all that I please.’


Now let's see what Jesus himself said and which totally agrees with what God said in the above also.


Matthew 24:36 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

Now, please notice the words of Jesus "but only the Father" period.

For not only did Jesus say that he was not equal unto God here in knowing the end from the Beginning but he totally agreed with God's words about himself in Isaiah 46:9-10, that Only The Father who is The Only True God (John 17:3) does know it.


Therefore, although Jesus was indeed like God in the sense of God's holy character, he wasn't exactly like God in every way and besides this, Paul never said in Philippians 2:6 that Jesus was ever equal "isa" with God to begin with but rather that he Jesus, "took no thought of robbery to exist as equal unto God" instead.


Furthermore, if you look at all of the scriptures where the word "morphe" or its relative words are used and which in the NIV of Philippians 2:6 is translated in the NIV as "nature", the word never means "nature" in regard to the actual substance or ontology but rather only in regards to the characteristics or appearance and that is a fact.


Therefore, just being like God in some ways isn't the same thing as being like God in every way, for God even tells us that we are to be like him in holiness, doesn't he?





Sorry but the NIV and KJV are both very poor translations of Philippians 2:6.

Furthermore, if Paul was really wanting us to know and believe that Jesus is God who became a man, he just would have stated that plainly and without using words that contradict it like "huparchon", "morphe", "isa" and "homoiomai".


Instead he would have said is something like this below.


"Who although being "eimi" God, did not consider his being "eimi" God, something to glory in but instead he made himself a servant by becoming a human being of flesh and blood".


Notice, there would have been no need at all for the word, "morphe" = "form" or "isa" = "equal" but instead Paul having the genius of the mind of God, would have just said it straight out. "who although existing "eimi" as God, did not consider his existing as God, something to glory in but instead he humbled himself and made himself a servant by becoming a human being".


That simple!
No its twisted as expected, not simple. The OP refutes your assumptions with biblical facts and definitions.

hope this helps !!!
 
Isaiah 40:25 "To whom then will ye liken me, or shall I be equal? saith the Holy One."

I have one question, anyone, beside the Lord Jesus, step forward, if you created any universe, how about a solar system, a planet maybe?

or Macaroni and cheese... (smile). .... :eek: YIKES!. might get a couple........ on the Macaroni and cheese ... LOL, well that "Equal" just went out the window for all of us.......

PICJAG, 101G.
 
No its twisted as expected, not simple. The OP refutes your assumptions with biblical facts and definitions.

hope this helps !!!
Lol!

I already exposed your OP by pointing out that the verses you selected with "made himself nothing" use words not in the Greek, "made" and "nothing."

Now that's a biblical fact.
 
No its twisted as expected, not simple. The OP refutes your assumptions with biblical facts and definitions.

hope this helps !!!

How is it twisted when God in Isaiah 46:9-10 uses his knowing the end from the beginning as the very mark of how no one else is like him and while Jesus in Matthew 24:36 not only told us that he doesn't have this knowledge but that only the Father does period?


For he not only said he didn't know when the end of the age and his second coming would be, but that only the Father does and which eliminated him from knowing at all period and no matter what nature you trins want to argue that he was speaking from dude.


Sorry but there is nothing twisted about this, but it is a fact right from the scriptures and the same scriptures that you claim to adhere to also Civic.


The truth be told, it is eating your guts up inside and you know it also Civic.



However, because you put your phony and counterfeit religious experiences and feeling before the truth of the actual scriptures themselves, you will ignore it just the same and just like I did for a while until God finally got my attention about it.
 
How is it twisted when God in Isaiah 46:9-10 uses his knowing the end from the beginning as the very mark of how no one else is like him and while Jesus in Matthew 24:36 not only told us that he doesn't have this knowledge but that only the Father does period?


For he not only said he didn't know when the end of the age and his second coming would be, but that only the Father does and which eliminated him from knowing at all period and no matter what nature you trins want to argue that he was speaking from dude.


Sorry but there is nothing twisted about this, but it is a fact right from the scriptures and the same scriptures that you claim to adhere to also Civic.


The truth be told, it is eating your guts up inside and you know it also Civic.



However, because you put your phony and counterfeit religious experiences and feeling before the truth of the actual scriptures themselves, you will ignore it just the same and just like I did for a while until God finally got my attention about it.
I see when you cannot win an argument you resort to ad hominem attacks. A sure sign of defeat . Something never change. You can change your screen name but ones character remains the same. A leopard cannot change its spots.
 
I see when you cannot win an argument you resort to ad hominem attacks. A sure sign of defeat . Something never change. You can change your screen name but ones character remains the same. A leopard cannot change its spots.
I say we take a poll. I certainly see that he won this one, and I don't even know him.

I would like to see you explain how the man Jesus on earth can be God when that means knowing everything... but he said he did not.
 
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