Kenosis Heresy

God does NOT have a human son; He has a DIVINE Son.
you are correct in that God don't have a human son. but describe your definition of a "DIVINE" Son, remenber .... God is ETERNAL, and if anyone that is "DIVINE" as he is are in violation of the scriptures, Isaiah 43:10 "Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me."
Isaiah 43:11 "I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour."

if there is no God before or after him, then I'll wait for your description of a "DIVINE" son.

PICJAG, 101G.
 
you are correct in that God don't have a human son. but describe your definition of a "DIVINE" Son, remenber .... God is ETERNAL, and if anyone that is "DIVINE" as he is are in violation of the scriptures, Isaiah 43:10 "Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me."
Isaiah 43:11 "I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour."

if there is no God before or after him, then I'll wait for your description of a "DIVINE" son.

PICJAG, 101G.
A Son, who like His Father, Is God.
 
A Son, who like His Father, Is God.
first thanks for the reply, second, no A "DIVINE" Son.

well lets put it in laymsn's term, the Lord Jesus is the "Son", and not a "son".... as we are, correct? ok. so what is the difference between us and the Lord Jesus in reference to sonship? I know a son in human flesh is our or better yet his character, or person which is "Holy". now that's out of the way. lets get to the "DIVINE".

the Lord Jesus is the DIVINE Son, in Spirit? lets see, as you say "who is Like his Father"... ok, scripture, Matthew 17:1 "And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,"
Matthew 17:2 "And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light."

ok JG. just Email me when you ge ready to transfigure yourself so that I can put on my sunglasses .... ok. .... that's if you're like him.

now there are sons of God, and there is the "Divine" Son, which shows that Jesus is no ordinary man as we are. but if you claim that you're like him, the just transfigure yourself, but let me know before you do that ... ok.

PICJAG, 101G.
 
first thanks for the reply, second, no A "DIVINE" Son.

well lets put it in laymsn's term, the Lord Jesus is the "Son", and not a "son".... as we are, correct? ok. so what is the difference between us and the Lord Jesus in reference to sonship? I know a son in human flesh is our or better yet his character, or person which is "Holy". now that's out of the way. lets get to the "DIVINE".

the Lord Jesus is the DIVINE Son, in Spirit? lets see, as you say "who is Like his Father"... ok, scripture, Matthew 17:1 "And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,"
Matthew 17:2 "And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light."

ok JG. just Email me when you ge ready to transfigure yourself so that I can put on my sunglasses .... ok. .... that's if you're like him.

now there are sons of God, and there is the "Divine" Son, which shows that Jesus is no ordinary man as we are. but if you claim that you're like him, the just transfigure yourself, but let me know before you do that ... ok.

PICJAG, 101G.
NO idea what you are talking about.
 
NO idea what you are talking about.
ok, no worries. but unto all who think the NATURE of the Lord Jesus was G2758 κενόω kenoo, no, as a poster plainly put it, only his G1411, dunamis, (POWERS), or Godly powers, was rendered G2758 κενόω kenoo, at his WILL, as the EQUAL SHARE, not his NATURE. so Philippians 2:6 is correct on his NATURE, "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:"

which is his Diversified or "SHARED" divine nature., "Spirit", GOD. for The transfiguration on the mountian top proves that he is no ordinary man like you and I.

PICJAG, 101G
 
ok, no worries. but unto all who think the NATURE of the Lord Jesus was G2758 κενόω kenoo, no, as a poster plainly put it, only his G1411, dunamis, (POWERS), or Godly powers, was rendered G2758 κενόω kenoo, at his WILL, as the EQUAL SHARE, not his NATURE. so Philippians 2:6 is correct on his NATURE, "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:"

which is his Diversified or "SHARED" divine nature., "Spirit", GOD. for The transfiguration on the mountian top proves that he is no ordinary man like you and I.

PICJAG, 101G
Indeed, He shares the Divine nature with The Father and Holy Spirit and the human nature with us.
 
Indeed, He shares the Divine nature with The Father and Holy Spirit and the human nature with us.
yes indeed, the equal share do not mean a second person, no, but the same ONE "person", equally shared.....

remember the ONE person is "JESUS", the Holy Spirit", who holds the titles Father, Ordinal First, and Son, the Ordinal Last.

share vs separate, that's the key to the "ECHAD" of God, who came in flesh.

PICJAG, 101G.
 
yes indeed, the equal share do not mean a second person, no, but the same ONE "person", equally shared.....

remember the ONE person is "JESUS", the Holy Spirit", who holds the titles Father, Ordinal First, and Son, the Ordinal Last.

share vs separate, that's the key to the "ECHAD" of God, who came in flesh.

PICJAG, 101G.
I am curious. In your view right now in heaven is the Father sitting on a throne with His Son at his right hand?

How do they interact? Do they speak to each other? Jesus said at John 8:38 that he was speaking about the things he has seen with his Father.
 
yes indeed, the equal share do not mean a second person, no, but the same ONE "person", equally shared.....

remember the ONE person is "JESUS", the Holy Spirit", who holds the titles Father, Ordinal First, and Son, the Ordinal Last.

share vs separate, that's the key to the "ECHAD" of God, who came in flesh.

PICJAG, 101G.
Jesus is NOT The Holy Spirit or The Father and holds NO such titles.
 
I am curious. In your view right now in heaven is the Father sitting on a throne with His Son at his right hand?

How do they interact? Do they speak to each other? Jesus said at John 8:38 that he was speaking about the things he has seen with his Father.
First thanks for the question. it is good to ask question, before one speak on a topic, Proverbs 18:13 "He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him."

now unto your first question,
right now in heaven is the Father sitting on a throne with His Son at his right hand?
NO, the Son sits, the term right hand is an anthropomorphism for "POWER", or as the Greeks identify this as ,G1411, dunamis, supportive scripture, Matthew 28:18 "And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth." which certify Revelation 4:11 as to who sits, and was "GIVEN" POWER.

the symbolism of sitting, (not literal), is indicating ,G1849, exousia power, remember the Greeks have two words for our one english word, "POWER". and the Lord Jesus has it all, NOTICE, "ALL" not "EVERY" , but all. big difference. supportive scripture, Psalms 110:1 "A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool." WHY, verse 5, "The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath". and to make WAR, he has the POWER to do it, Revelation 19:11 "And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war."

Revelation 19:11 "And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war."
How do they interact?
by the "Shared" Spiritual "WILL" of his plan of Salvation, scripture, Isaiah 46:10 "Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:"

understand, this is all in the ACT of his divine "WILL" we suggest you read this post here, https://forums.carm.org/threads/the-alpha-and-omega-god.4553/post-316215
Do they speak to each other?
with the understand of the post that I asked you to read, his will is acted OUT. in order to understand "ONENESS" ... do you talk to yourself? he just do it openly for our BENFIT, John 12:30 "Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes." again Isaiah 46:10b, "My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:"

Jesus said at John 8:38 that he was speaking about the things he has seen with his Father.
quick answer, "FORE KNOWLEDGE", or omniscient, meaning, having infinite awareness, understanding, and insight.
NOT when he was in FLESH, G2758 κενόω kenoo, but in glory of the Spirit in resurrection, and this is one of the reason why, He the Holy Spirit will only speak what he has heard.. :)

Thanks to the question, if there are any areas that need extended explination, just ask, and again, thanks for the question.

PICJAG, 101G.
 
Jesus is NOT The Holy Spirit or The Father and holds NO such titles.
well lets see, John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;"
John 14:17 "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you."
John 14:18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you."

NOW JG, the term "ANOTHER" Comforter is G243 Allos, the same one, so when did the comforter come "FIRST?"..... before he came on the day o0f PENTECOST... cain't wait to herar that answer, and two.......

according to John 14:18, the Lord Jesus said, "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you."

when did he come to them, as the Spirit? ... read the context.

PICJAG, 101G.
 
First thanks for the question. it is good to ask question, before one speak on a topic, Proverbs 18:13 "He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him."


now unto your first question,


NO, the Son sits, the term right hand is an anthropomorphism for "POWER", or as the Greeks identify this as ,G1411, dunamis, supportive scripture, Matthew 28:18 "And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth." which certify Revelation 4:11 as to who sits, and was "GIVEN" POWER.


the symbolism of sitting, (not literal), is indicating ,G1849, exousia power, remember the Greeks have two words for our one english word, "POWER". and the Lord Jesus has it all, NOTICE, "ALL" not "EVERY" , but all. big difference. supportive scripture, Psalms 110:1 "A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool." WHY, verse 5, "The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath". and to make WAR, he has the POWER to do it, Revelation 19:11 "And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war."

I agree it's an anthromorphism. So you don't see Jesus as having a human body in heaven?

Revelation 19:11 "And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war."

by the "Shared" Spiritual "WILL" of his plan of Salvation, scripture, Isaiah 46:10 "Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:"

understand, this is all in the ACT of his divine "WILL" we suggest you read this post here, https://forums.carm.org/threads/the-alpha-and-omega-god.4553/post-316215

with the understand of the post that I asked you to read, his will is acted OUT. in order to understand "ONENESS" ... do you talk to yourself? he just do it openly for our BENFIT, John 12:30 "Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes." again Isaiah 46:10b, "My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:"


quick answer, "FORE KNOWLEDGE", or omniscient, meaning, having infinite awareness, understanding, and insight.
NOT when he was in FLESH, G2758 κενόω kenoo, but in glory of the Spirit in resurrection, and this is one of the reason why, He the Holy Spirit will only speak what he has heard.. :)

Ah, so he is no longer a fleshly being in heaven. Wouldn't that mean that he no longer exists in any way separate from the Father?
Thanks to the question, if there are any areas that need extended explination, just ask, and again, thanks for the question.

PICJAG, 101G.
 
well lets see, John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;"
John 14:17 "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you."
John 14:18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you."

NOW JG, the term "ANOTHER" Comforter is G243 Allos, the same one, so when did the comforter come "FIRST?"..... before he came on the day o0f PENTECOST... cain't wait to herar that answer, and two.......

according to John 14:18, the Lord Jesus said, "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you."

when did he come to them, as the Spirit? ... read the context.

PICJAG, 101G.
ANOTHER Comforted. Jesus Christ ALWAYS refers to The Holy Spirit as a distinct Person from Himself.
 
ANOTHER Comforted. Jesus Christ ALWAYS refers to The Holy Spirit as a distinct Person from Himself.
Error, let me ask you this. if one person who is distinct and separate from your other two, question, when the person the son came in flesh, did all the Spirit, or some of the Spirit came into that body? was it just 1/3 of the Spirit for the Son? or how much at the birth of the flesh was in that body?

will be looking for your answer.

PICJAG, 101G.
 
let us help you out JG, Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:"

now if his NATURE is Spirit, and at his baptism the Spirit desended on him is this not two "Spirit?" because Philippians 2:6 states, "Who, being in the form of God, being is present tense. meaning that his Nature is "Spirit", because he is EQUAL "WITH" God, and not equal "To" God, but "Equal "WITH".

so if he has the NATURE of God, (spirit), before the Spirit desended on him, is this two separate, and distinct "NATURES", and not person. yes or NO?

PICJAG, 101G.
 
Error, let me ask you this. if one person who is distinct and separate from your other two, question, when the person the son came in flesh, did all the Spirit, or some of the Spirit came into that body? was it just 1/3 of the Spirit for the Son? or how much at the birth of the flesh was in that body?

will be looking for your answer.

PICJAG, 101G.
ALL of The Spirit who is God BECAME a MAN.
Came into that body????NO idea what you mean. God did NOT come into a man; He BECAME A Man.
NO such thing as 1/3 of The Spirit. God is UNDIVIDED and INDIVISIBLE.
 
let us help you out JG, Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:"

now if his NATURE is Spirit, and at his baptism the Spirit desended on him is this not two "Spirit?" because Philippians 2:6 states, "Who, being in the form of God, being is present tense. meaning that his Nature is "Spirit", because he is EQUAL "WITH" God, and not equal "To" God, but "Equal "WITH".

so if he has the NATURE of God, (spirit), before the Spirit desended on him, is this two separate, and distinct "NATURES", and not person. yes or NO?

PICJAG, 101G.
Equal with, equal to. I fail to see the difference.
God has ONE Nature: Divine.
 
ALL of The Spirit who is God BECAME a MAN.
first thanks for the reply because God is not divided, correct. second, you now have a BIG problen, because if ALL of the Spirit of the ONE God became a man, then Philippians 2:7 eliminates your doctrine of one Spirit, and three persons, "But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:"

so if all of the Spirit became a man, then the power to uphold the universe is no more because all the power WAS G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō') IN THAT BODY OF FLESH.

SO TRY AGAIN.
Equal with, equal to. I fail to see the difference.
God has ONE Nature: Divine.
THIS IS MY POINT, IF EQUAL TO, THEN YOU HAVE TWO OR MORE natures... MEANING two or moreGODS" and that's division. that is G2087 heteros, and not G243 allos. by being "EQUAL" ... WITH, then the Spirit/Nature is the same one Nature, or Spirit.

so JG you have a big problen on your hand....... because if all the Spirit was made a man/flesh in a G2758 κενόω kenoo state, who then was running the universe? are you seeing your problem now?. see your person is wihin the one Spirit as your doctrine states. if one person is outsode the one Spirit, then he is not God, which Phil 2:6 clearly is the same NATURE... "God". ...... :eek: YIKES!

and if you say, only some or a equal HALF, then you have a divided Spirit, that is separate and distinct, and that's polytheistic by default.

so your answer Please.....

PICJAG, 101G.
 
first thanks for the reply because God is not divided, correct. second, you now have a BIG problen, because if ALL of the Spirit of the ONE God became a man, then Philippians 2:7 eliminates your doctrine of one Spirit, and three persons, "But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:"

so if all of the Spirit became a man, then the power to uphold the universe is no more because all the power WAS G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō') IN THAT BODY OF FLESH.

SO TRY AGAIN.

THIS IS MY POINT, IF EQUAL TO, THEN YOU HAVE TWO OR MORE natures... MEANING two or moreGODS" and that's division. that is G2087 heteros, and not G243 allos. by being "EQUAL" ... WITH, then the Spirit/Nature is the same one Nature, or Spirit.

so JG you have a big problen on your hand....... because if all the Spirit was made a man/flesh in a G2758 κενόω kenoo state, who then was running the universe? are you seeing your problem now?. see your person is wihin the one Spirit as your doctrine states. if one person is outsode the one Spirit, then he is not God, which Phil 2:6 clearly is the same NATURE... "God". ...... :eek: YIKES!

and if you say, only some or a equal HALF, then you have a divided Spirit, that is separate and distinct, and that's polytheistic by default.

so your answer Please.....

PICJAG, 101G.
ALL of The Spirit who is The SON became a Man, BUT The Son NEVER ceased to be God or uphold the universe.
Who was running the universe???Father, Son, Holy Spirit.
The MODE of God is Spirit; His NATURE is Divine.
 
ALL of The Spirit who is The SON became a Man, BUT The Son NEVER ceased to be God or uphold the universe.
Who was running the universe???Father, Son, Holy Spirit.
The MODE of God is Spirit; His NATURE is Divine.
if so then the ONE Spirit is only the Son. ONE PERSON... (smile), remember, there is ONE Spirit, and that ONE Spirit was G2758 κενόω kenoo. Philippians 2:7 "But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:"

and the ONE "Spirit" is the same ONE one Spirit in that body, Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:" and that "Form" is Spirit.

and the Spirit that was G2758 κενόω kenoo is EQUAL "WITH", God , because no one else is EQUAL with God, so it's all or NONE, and since you said all of the Spirit was in the man I agree, but how was all in him? and yet G2758 κενόω kenoo. THAT YOUR DELIMMIA.

SO HOW WAS ALL THE SAME ONE SPIRIT IN THAT BODY IN A G2758 κενόω kenoo STATES AND YET RAN THE UNIVERSE.? REMEMBER "GOD" IS A "SPIRIT". so either the one Spirit was in that body, (which it was), OR NOE, but that ONE Spirit in that Body was in a G2758 κενόω kenoo



PICJAG, 101G.
 
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