The Alpha and Omega- God

Newbirth said:
You would be referring to Jesus...

John 16:27
For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God. Do you believe Jesus came out from God? John is saying that is what they believed.

You misunderstand the scripture...The word/Jesus existed with God in God.
1These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Click to expand...
EVASION. You did NOT address John 1:1.
 
101G said:
ERROR, the ONE PERSON "JESUS" was in prayer as the Ordinal First, and the Ordinal Last. we suggest you understand what ANOTHER is .. G243 Allos, and what it express. we suggest you use the Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words to understand, it gives an exllent definition.

once you understand the ECHAD, or the G243 Allos of God as the Ordinal First and the Ordinal Last, then get back with me.... ok.

PICJAG, 101G.
Click to expand...

Now that we've brought a dictionary into the discussion, let's read it: https://studybible.info/vines/Another. And I quote: "Allos expresses a numerical difference and denotes another of the same sort;" A numerical difference between two things means that two things are in view (i.e. Jesus, and his Father).


Now that we've used a dictionary and it says what I thought it would say, let's get on to WHO you think Jesus prayed to:
  1. The person Jesus was praying to the person Jesus, and calling the person Jesus his father. (you say this is error)
  2. The person Jesus was praying to a person that was not the same person as Jesus, and the person Jesus was calling this other person his father.
 
johnny guitar said:
Adoptive fathers are NOT the same as LITERAL Fathers.
And Jesus Christ ALONE can call God His LITERAL Father.
Click to expand...

And someday, maybe, when the stars are right, when you figure out that God is the father of Jesus, you may realize that Jesus is not his own father (i.e. God), but rather the simple truth that Jesus is the son of God.
 
Stephen said:
Now that we've brought a dictionary into the discussion, let's read it: https://studybible.info/vines/Another. And I quote: "Allos expresses a numerical difference and denotes another of the same sort;" A numerical difference between two things means that two things are in view (i.e. Jesus, and his Father).


Now that we've used a dictionary and it says what I thought it would say, let's get on to WHO you think Jesus prayed to:
  1. The person Jesus was praying to the person Jesus, and calling the person Jesus his father. (you say this is error)
  2. The person Jesus was praying to a person that was not the same person as Jesus, and the person Jesus was calling this other person his father.
Click to expand...
thanks for the reply, but we can settle this quickly, is the Person in John 1:3 "Who Made all things", is the same ONE person in Isaiah 44:24 "Who made all things?" yes or no.

and then we can examine what G243 allos is saying.

PICJAG, 101G.
 
101G said:
thanks for the reply, but we can settle this quickly, is the Person in John 1:3 "Who Made all things", is the same ONE person in Isaiah 44:24 "Who made all things?" yes or no.

and then we can examine what G243 allos is saying.

PICJAG, 101G.
Click to expand...
Same ONE God as in Isaiah 44:24.
 
Stephen said:
And someday, maybe, when the stars are right, when you figure out that God is the father of Jesus, you may realize that Jesus is not his own father (i.e. God), but rather the simple truth that Jesus is the son of God.
Click to expand...
You mean the LITERAL SON of God????
 
Stephen said:
No, however the question is unrelated to anything posted so far. This is akin to me asking if you beat your wife. Neither your question nor my hypothetical question are related to the discussion.
Click to expand...
It is related. Your claim is that Jesus received the HS at some undetermined point.
Stephen said:
Are you not? As John declares: "Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is begotten of God" - 1 John 5:1
Click to expand...
No. There is a difference between begotten by and begotten of.
You are fighting against the scriptures that teach adoption as sons.

Jesus was not adopted, no matter how hard you try and prove it.
Stephen said:
I don't know what the "biological" distinction has to do with this discussion. Adopted fathers are still fathers. Whether adopted or biological, Christians are to call their father in heaven, "father".
Click to expand...
Evasion from the topic, and a pretense not to understand.

There is a difference between being begat by someone, and being adopted by someone.

You are trying to make Jesus out to me a mere man who was infilled with the Spirit after a new-birth experience, likening it to our salvation.

Can you not admit that Jesus did not NEED to be born again?
 
Newbirth said:
Because you believe something that does not make it true. Where does the scripture say... Jesus is 100% man and 100% God?
Click to expand...
Well, you have read scripture have you not?
If you do not have a human for a father but you were conceived by the Holy Spirit, does that set you apart from other humans?
If so, why?
You think Jesus was just a man like any other and that he required salvation just like any other?
Newbirth said:
God is spirit...Jesus is a man. Jesus died. Jesus was resurrected and ascended to his God.
John 20:17
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
Click to expand...
Can you prove to me with scripture that Jesus was not omnipresent?
If Jesus was just a mere man, how did he know all those things about the woman at the well for example, or that Lazarus was going to die, before Lazarus had died.

There is a distinction between His divinity and His humanity. It is there in scripture.
You can and will never accept it.
It is easy for me to reconcile it with scripture.
Newbirth said:
You are refuting your own argument...Man has a body and a spirit...the body without the spirit is dead...
Click to expand...
No I am not.
Jesus was fully man, His Spirit was always fully God. He has the Spirit without measure. What happened on the cross before He breathed His last.

When He was resurrected, what Spirit did He have.

It is easy to understand. You are trying to confuse yourself because you do not believe Jesus had the fullness of the Spirit of God, that it was 100% part of Him.
Newbirth said:
No, it does not ...and that does not make me God... Just because Jesus spirit did not die the same as all men that does not make him God either
Click to expand...
What does it make Him? Just super special?
Newbirth said:
You are refuting yourself again ...If God begat him then he is not God, that would make God his father.
Click to expand...
I believe there is God the Father, God the son who was with God and who is God, and God the Holy Spirit who are one not three Gods.
That is my position.
You saying I am refuting myself is moot if you cannot understand my Theology.
Newbirth said:
the scripture says he was...You seem to think the scripture is lying...

It seems like you don't believe what John wrote about Jesus saying this...John is saying those are Jesus' words...
34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.
35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.
Click to expand...
Can you tell us all at which specific point in His life Jesus was given the Spirit without measure.
I am asking you at which point in His life?

I do believe that Jesus had the Spirit in all it's fullness even before conception.
2 the life was made manifest, and we have seen it, and testify to it and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was made manifest to us—
Newbirth said:
I suppose you don't believe Matthew either.
Matthew 3:16
And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
Click to expand...
I suppose you don't believe....
Of course I believe all scripture. Why must I believe your misrepresentation of scripture?
If you cannot discern the truth in all the counsel of scripture and have to cherry pick a verse and take it from the context as a whole and then claim I do not believe it, then it is on you.

Are you saying that Jesus was re-born when He got baptized? Did He not have the fullness of the Spirit when He was born?
 
Newbirth said:
Adoptive fathers are literal fathers...but not biological fathers


Then you are agreeing that Jesus is not God, since the father is God and there is only one God.
Click to expand...
Biological fathers exist ONLY in the world of men.
And an adoptive father is NOT a literal father,
Only ONE Literal Son of The Father; ONE Literal Father of The Son.
 
johnny guitar said:
Biological fathers exist ONLY in the world of men.
Click to expand...
The one who made all biology and by extension all men would be the father of all that is biological
johnny guitar said:
And an adoptive father is NOT a literal father,
Click to expand...
Yes, he is. A father is a male parent, a parent is someone who looks after their children.
johnny guitar said:
Only ONE Literal Son of The Father;
Click to expand...
You are playing word games. The scripture does not mention literal son, the scripture identifies us as joint-heirs with Christ... But that is beside the point...You are refuting your own argument, Since the father is God the son cannot be God...
johnny guitar said:
ONE Literal Father of The Son.
Click to expand...
That is why the son has a God, which makes the son, not God. Thanks for refuting your own argument.
 
johnny guitar said:
ONE God in THREE Persons; THREE Persons in ONE God.
Clear revelation in the Bible.
Click to expand...
That is your personal revelation but it is not written in the scripture. We are told to believe what is written not what someone thinks is a revelation...show me where that is written, sir...If the apostles wanted us to believe that they would have written it ...
John 20:31
But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
1 John 5:13
These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God
 
johnny guitar said:
You did NOT deal with John 1:1
Click to expand...
It does not say Jesus is God
johnny guitar said:
and indeed Jesus ALONE can call God His LITERAL Father.
Click to expand...
speak for yourself...if one is born of God then God is his literal father.
John 1:13
Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
johnny guitar said:
You CANNOT.
Click to expand...
Speak for yourself, if God is not someone's literal father and they claim to be a son they are a bastard.
 
Manfred said:
It is related. Your claim is that Jesus received the HS at some undetermined point.
Click to expand...

I haven't claimed that yet in this thread. However, the "undetermined point" would be at his baptism when the holy spirit descended.

Manfred said:
No. There is a difference between begotten by and begotten of.
You are fighting against the scriptures that teach adoption as sons.

Jesus was not adopted, no matter how hard you try and prove it.
Click to expand...

I am not trying to prove Jesus was adopted. (How on God's green earth did you go there?) I am trying to show you that Christians are born of God. Jesus gave a discourse on this to Nicodemus.

Manfred said:
Evasion from the topic, and a pretense not to understand.

There is a difference between being begat by someone, and being adopted by someone.
Click to expand...

The bible says begotten for both Jesus and the saints. Christians are born twice.


Manfred said:
You are trying to make Jesus out to me a mere man who was infilled with the Spirit after a new-birth experience, likening it to our salvation.
Click to expand...

I sure am. He was saved from death, just like we are to be (Heb 5:7).

Manfred said:
Can you not admit that Jesus did not NEED to be born again?
Click to expand...

Why wouldn't he need to be born again?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top