T
TomFL
Guest
The problem with your interpretation of Eph 1:4Why is it so difficult for you to understand that God's ability to choose under what conditions he desires to save is not in the slightest a sound/rational question to be asking? I don't have to provide evidence for something as clear as "according to the good pleasure of His will." That statement, in the English language, speaks for itself. Will and desire are the same thing, which is the same as want. So He chose because He wanted to. That is synonymous to unconditional, or better yet, without merit. There is nothing you had done that drew Him to you before the foundation of the world, that is, before you were even born. Before Adam was even created. Yet, such a statement means that God knew Adam would sin before the foundation of the world. Take that bone and chew on it. It seems that God is more Creator then He is human, yet you keep looking at Him as human, and judging Him on a completely unsuitable standard.
His choice was His will, since it was "according to the good pleasure of His will", so He willed to be unconditional, and chose how He felt like.
Ephesians 1:4 is something that God did in His domain. Ephesians 1:13 is in our domain, speaking of our salvation, the fulfilling of His choice by His will before the foundation of the world. It was destined to happen, because God chose, and God willed it. He is the author of salvation.
Why can't He choose arbitrarily? Are you going to throw a tantrum about all the work you did to get Him to choose you? I am not assuming that "according to the good pleasure of His will" is unconditional, I am fully digesting the English phrase and its meaning, and that is it's meaning. It is unconditional, based on no merit of our own. No amount of work on our part to stick out has any impact on the choice He made before the foundation of the world. Since you are saying that what I am saying has no support in scripture, then the burden of proof, when being rational, is on you to give the list of conditions God used to choose. Since "according to the good purpose of His will" is placed in the sentence where a condition would be placed, and this basically means it was how He felt, or even arbitrary, then this verse is not evidence of what you are saying. So please, give us the list of conditions God used when choosing us before the foundation of the world, and it has to be connected to what Ephesians 1:4 states, which is He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world. Give us the in stone conditions, the list of requirements God had in order to choose us. Saying He looked forward beyond the foundation of the earth is, for obvious reasons, an unsound/invalid argument, since it clearly states that it was before the foundation of the world. If you can't just state that you can see how this can be, but you can't understand it, you have not freed God from your human standards.
It nowhere states he unconditionally chose men to be in Christ
and such a conclusion flies in the face of the context
Eph. 1:13 —KJV
“In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,”
men are in Christ when they believe
not before
Eph. 2:12 —KJV
“That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:”
So not only do we see the condition upon which men are in Christ
In fact there is not a single verses which states God unconditionally places men in Christ
Worse not only do we not have any such verses but we have a multitude of verses which show things which accompany being in Christ are all stated to accrue upon faith
Forgiveness of sin, Salvation . justification, regeneration, reception of the spirit, eternal life, adoption
all are predicated upon faith
None are ever stated to be unconditional
There is no reason at all to believe your assumption that God chose the faithful in Christ to be holy and blameless
means he unconditionally chose them to be in Christ
and There simply is no reason to believe your assumption over the abundant biblical record