James 2:24

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dberrie2020 said:
Where does anyone find this as "free"?

1 John 1:7---King James Version
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

I believe you are confusing the free gift of eternal life--as an opportunity to all to inherit eternal life--where His Atonement absolved all of the condemnation of the Fall--and opened up the doors of eternal life for all--IE--

Romans 5:18---King James Version
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

You might have that confused with the personal reception of eternal life, or--the forgiveness of our personal sins. That grace isn't free, as that is conditional on our walk in the light--as the above scripture shows.
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Romans 5:18 (Mormon style)

Justification of life = redeemed= resurrection.

But you leave out:

John 3:18
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

All men are condememned until they are regenerated. They are unsaved and not seeking God.
 
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dberrie2020 said:
Romans 3:21-25---King James Version
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested
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The Mormons substituted laws and ordinances for the Mosaic law:

3 We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
-THE ARTICLES OF FAITH OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
 
Aaron32 said:
Yes, following Jesus Christ is a necessary ordinance. Most Christians would agree with this, they just put in the context of "faith in action"

Baptism is the gate - faith and repentance gets us to and through the gate.

All other "necessary ordinances" are for exaltation, not salvation - teaching us the laws that operate in his Kingdom.

"There are two kingdoms only"

If we believe "faith without works is dead" and "works is the evidence of our faith" then faith (as a principle of action) unscored everything else that follows.

Yes, it's a gift about as much as our physical bodies now are a gift from God.
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Following Christ isn't an ordinance.
 
Janice Bower said:
Romans 5:18 (Mormon style)

Justification of life = redeemed= resurrection.

But you leave out:

John 3:18
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

All men are condememned until they are regenerated. They are unsaved and not seeking God.
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Janice--I believe you might be confusing Biblical theology--which agrees with LDS theology.

Romans5:18 is the free gift of God to "all men". It was accomplished by Christ alone--minus your or anyone else's faith. Unconditional. In fact--if one were able to add their faith in accomplishing what God did in His Atonement and Resurrection--then it would have failed, our faith being imperfect, and the Atonement and Resurrection taking a perfect sacrifice to accomplish.

Jesus Christ, in His Atonement--delivered all men from the condemnation brought to all men due to the Fall--as a free gift to all men:

Romans 5:18---King James Version
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.


"came upon"--past tense. That delivered all men from the condemnation of the Fall, and released all men from that bondage, both spiritual death, and physical death(resurrection)--as it relates to the Fall. IOW--death and hell, as an automatic condemnation brought to all men due to the Fall--is swallowed up in Christ and His Atonement and Resurrection. Now--all men are born saved--until the appointed time where one is judged according to their personal works.

John3:18 is an accountability as to our personal choices--not the Fall. The Atonement made it possible for us to inherit eternal life--by absolving all from the condemnation of the Fall. That does not preclude all will now answer for their own choices--as, although the NT Atonement did deliver us from the condemnation of the Fall--it does not deliver us from our personal sins, as to the forgiveness of sins--unless we obey God. That is conditional, IE--the forgiveness of sins---and the Atonement and Resurrection, as it relates to the Fall--is unconditional. Free gift to all men. Done. Over. Nailed to the Cross.
 
Janice Bower said:
How is following Jesus an ordinance in Mormonism? Does it have a name?
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The same way it was an ordinance here:

Acts 2:38--King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Have you not read that was the beginning of the gospel?

Mark 1:1-5---King James Version
1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;
2 As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
3 The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
5 And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.
 
dberrie2020 said:
The same way it was an ordinance here:

Acts 2:38--King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Have you not read that was the beginning of the gospel?

Mark 1:1-5---King James Version
1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;
2 As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
3 The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
5 And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.
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An ordinance is not following Christ. I knew people who were baptized by Mormon missionaries who never believed in Christ as a Savior and didn't follow Him afterwards. I followed Christ (the true One) several months before I was baptized in a Christian church. Following Christ happens as soon as we are regenerated and regeneration happens when God wants it to. It might be in a prison cell or in a desert. I was in your church for years. No one ever called following Christ an ordinance. How long does an ordinance last? Following the true Christ lasts forever.
 
Janice Bower said:
Following Christ isn't an ordinance.
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Sure it is:
Romans 6:
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
 
dberrie2020 said:
Janice--I believe you might be confusing Biblical theology--which agrees with LDS theology.

Romans5:18 is the free gift of God to "all men". It was accomplished by Christ alone--minus your or anyone else's faith. Unconditional. In fact--if one were able to add their faith in accomplishing what God did in His Atonement and Resurrection--then it would have failed, our faith being imperfect, and the Atonement and Resurrection taking a perfect sacrifice to accomplish.

Jesus Christ, in His Atonement--delivered all men from the condemnation brought to all men due to the Fall--as a free gift to all men:

Romans 5:18---King James Version
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.


"came upon"--past tense. That delivered all men from the condemnation of the Fall, and released all men from that bondage, both spiritual death, and physical death(resurrection)--as it relates to the Fall. IOW--death and hell, as an automatic condemnation brought to all men due to the Fall--is swallowed up in Christ and His Atonement and Resurrection. Now--all men are born saved--until the appointed time where one is judged according to their personal works.

John3:18 is an accountability as to our personal choices--not the Fall. The Atonement made it possible for us to inherit eternal life--by absolving all from the condemnation of the Fall. That does not preclude all will now answer for their own choices--as, although the NT Atonement did deliver us from the condemnation of the Fall--it does not deliver us from our personal sins, as to the forgiveness of sins--unless we obey God. That is conditional, IE--the forgiveness of sins---and the Atonement and Resurrection, as it relates to the Fall--is unconditional. Free gift to all men. Done. Over. Nailed to the Cross.
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Where does it say that "justification of life" means resurrection?
 
Janice Bower said:
An ordinance is not following Christ.
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Of course it is--as to compliance--if Christ gave that ordinance to man. It connects our obedience to God's grace, and I don't believe God would extend that grace if it wasn't in obedience to Him:

Acts 2:38--King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

One of the definitions of "follow" is to obey.

Janice Bower said:
I knew people who were baptized by Mormon missionaries who never believed in Christ as a Savior and didn't follow Him afterwards. I followed Christ (the true One) several months before I was baptized in a Christian church. Following Christ happens as soon as we are regenerated and regeneration happens when God wants it to. It might be in a prison cell or in a desert. I was in your church for years. No one ever called following Christ an ordinance.
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No one calls a car an engine--but that doesn't mean an engine isn't an integral component of a car.
 
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Janice Bower said:
Where does it say that "justification of life" means resurrection?
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The term "justification of life"--was a specific term used to denote the Atonement of Jesus Christ, as to Romans5:18. The Atonement and Resurrection of Jesus Christ delivered all men from the automatic condemnation brought to all men due to the Fall, IE--death and hell, or--physical and spiritual death, as it relates to the Fall.

Now--all men answer for their own choices--and not Adam's:

Matthew 16:27---King James Version
27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
 
Mesenja said:

EDITED--TOO MANY LINKS IN ONE POST; NO CITATION OF SOURCES​
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Considering the facts that:
- you posted this in a different font;
- you include Hebrew and Greek, which I don't believe you understand either language;
- I don't believe you can write this well;
- some of the phrases link back to David Bednar;

.... I'm guessing that you plagiarized this.
 
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Theo1689 said:
Considering the facts that:
- you posted this in a different font;
- you include Hebrew and Greek, which I don't believe you understand either language;
- I don't believe you can write this well;
- some of the phrases link back to David Bednar;

.... I'm guessing that you plagiarized this.
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No I did not plagiarize Elder David Bednar. I summarized what he said in my own words. It’s irrelevant what font I used. It’s irrelevant whether I personally know Hebrew or Greek. What’s material is that other people are knowledgeable in Hebrew and Greek. It’s irrelevant your opinion of whether I can write this well. My post is not original. I relied upon several different sources. That doesn’t mean that I am guilty of plagiarizing. I’m guessing that you don’t have a rebuttal.
 
Janice Bower said:
The Mormons substituted laws and ordinances for the Mosaic law:

3 We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.-THE ARTICLES OF FAITH OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS​
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Why did you highlight the words Atonement mankind and saved? Is that to show your disagreement that we are saved by the Atonement of Jesus Christ? Do you also disagree with the need to be a obedient to any laws and ordinances given by God? Or maybe you are of the opinion that God never gave us any laws and ordinances.
​
 
Aaron32 said:
baptism
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Luke 1:76-76
And you, child will be called the prophet of the Most High;
for you will go before the Lord to prepare his ways,
77 to give knowledge of salvation to his people
in the forgiveness of their sins,
 
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Luke 1:76-76
And you, child will be called the prophet of the Most High;
for you will go before the Lord to prepare his ways,
77 to give knowledge of salvation to his people
in the forgiveness of their sins,
 
​
Janice Bower said:
An ordinance is not following Christ. I knew people who were baptized by Mormon missionaries who never believed in Christ as a Savior and didn't follow Him afterwards. I followed Christ (the true One) several months before I was baptized in a Christian church. Following Christ happens as soon as we are regenerated and regeneration happens when God wants it to. It might be in a prison cell or in a desert. I was in your church for years. No one ever called following Christ an ordinance. How long does an ordinance last? Following the true Christ lasts forever.​
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​
The Baptismal Covenant​

Those who are baptized enter into a covenant with God to take upon themselves the name of Jesus Christ, keep His commandments, and serve Him to the end (see Mosiah 18:8–10; Doctrine and Covenants 20:37). Church members renew this covenant each time they partake of the sacrament (see Doctrine and Covenants 20:77, 79). Those who keep the covenants they made at baptism are blessed by the Lord for their faithfulness. Some of the blessings include the constant companionship of the Holy Ghost, the remission of sins, and the privilege of being spiritually reborn. If they continue faithfully, they are promised eternal life (see 2 Nephi 31:19–20).​
 
Mesenja said:
No I did not plagiarize Elder David Bednar. I summarized what he said in my own words. It’s irrelevant what font I used. It’s irrelevant whether I personally know Hebrew or Greek. What’s material is that other people are knowledgeable in Hebrew and Greek. It’s irrelevant your opinion of whether I can write this well. My post is not original. I relied upon several different sources. That doesn’t mean that I am guilty of plagiarizing. I’m guessing that you don’t have a rebuttal.
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“My post is not original.” You didn’t cite your sources. Guess what that makes it.
 
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