Sabbath Day Salvation

While working as a mental health case manager, I learned not to argue with clients about their delusions. They don't exist, so why bother?

However, the situation at hand has certain familiar aspects to my working with schizophrenic clients, and that is they are unflinchingly loyal to their delusions. One of my clients asked his psychiatrist, also a medical missionary, "How do I get rid of the demons, Doc?" He said, "You can't, but only the blood of Christ can do it." In a private conversation, he confirmed the essence of what my client stated.

Another client of mine reacted positively when I told her to say to her demons, "In the name of Jesus, go away from me!"

Any Evangelical who has looked at the things in the Bible regarding demonic activity can see where demons were behind the Gerasene Demoniac in Mark 5.

Other examples in the Gospels and Acts include these:
  • Physical Illness Several specific physical afflictions are attributed to demons in the Bible. Jesus cast a demon out of a dumb man who immediately began to speak (Matt. 9:32, 33). On another occasion, a blind man began to see when the demon went out of him (Matt. 12:22).
  • Mental Impairment When Israel left Egypt, God gave them the land of Canaan. One of the reasons God wanted them in a separate land was that the heathen nations had given themselves over to unclean spirits and had become: corrupted (Lev. 18; Deut. 18).
  • The Spread of False Doctrine Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons. 1 Timothy 4:1
  • Spiritual Warfare Part of the work of demons, particularly as it relates to the Christian life, is doing battle with Christians on the spiritual level. This condition is the reason behind the apostolic imperative, “Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil.” (Eph. 6:11)
  • Possession On many occasions demon possession resulted in mental derangement. In most cases recorded in Scripture, the person possessed was apparently responsible for being possessed.
Common to all of these is the first question asked by the Chief Demon, Satan when He asked Eve, "Did God really say THAT? Satan was actually asking if it was a possibility for God to lie when He instructed Adam, "Do not eat of the fruit of that particular tree". I see the unknowing participants in the Charismania movement asking the same and not liking the answer, so they simply ignore what God clearly stated.

Therefore, Yashuahfan, your concern for the spiritual condition of CharismaticLady is well-founded, and I share that concern.

From her posts, it is evident that she has little or no experience with systematic theology. Systematic theology isa great tool because it takes the interlocking propositions of Scriptures, and builds theological walls which essentially say, "Go no further than this."

The problem with "Charismania" is that it (and the intertwining so-called "prosperity Gospel") tells people that they can have a greater EXPERIENCE than others if they get "slain in the spirit" of have "holy laughter" etc.

For sure, those in the "charismania churches" do not bother to act like Bereans to check the Scriptures to see if things be as are going on in front of them because they feel so good when they are done, how that be so wrong?

In other words, their experiences override their allegiance to what God clearly wrote in His Bible. I believe that is the main reason why CL does not respond to challenges to so-called "charismania". To do so would cause great discomfort for

My wife comes from a Charismatic background. I told her I had issues with the Charismatic movement. So do lots of people. I had a book about the problems that I asked her to read. I thought it would be a good way to open up discussion and study the issue. Looking at different positions and seeing where paths diverge is healthy for one's faith, which is why God said people should be like the Bereans.

She read about the first three pages, got angry and refused to even look at the book anymore. I was dumbfounded at the reaction and pretty disheartened by it. It What I thought would be beneficial discussion just led to anger.

Once false doctrine gets a hook in a person, it can be hard to get it out. And that is understandable. It is hard to admit one is bamboozled. It is even harder if it is a generational thing. Then one has to admit their parents were bamboozled, they were bamboozled, and they bamboozled their own children.

It really makes one realize that anyone coming to faith is a miracle. Only God can get through to people at the end of the day.
 
I can discern, that many think Jesus lied.
Discernment isn't your forte Mike. What if some did not believe, were without faith? Does their lack of faith nullify God's word? Of course not!
So believing a lie will remove salvation from a soul, who does not repent, Right ???
A backslider, a heart that turns from God, will be filled with his own shenanigans; (Prov 14:14)
That is the problem with unfulfilled prophecy, it is easy to make assumptions before fulfillment.
For Christ is the fulfillment of the Law of Moses for the justification of everyone who has faith. Rom 10:4
OT prophets had a terrible time with GOD's enemies on that. DUH !!!
No one could say that they were trying to tickle the ears. "Why will you die?" Ezekiel 33:11, Ezekiel 18:31
As an former Adventist, when this takes place, you personally can influence GOD's salvation decision for yourself, with no excuses.
And from the Law of Moses and from the Prophets Paul tried to persuade them about Jesus. Some believed but others refused to believe, were hardened. Acts 28:23-24
He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts,... Isaiah said this because he saw Jesus’ glory and spoke about Him. John 12:40-42
I fine it interesting your god changes, and my GOD does not.
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever. Hebrews 13:8
Time will tell who knew GOD better, per GOD's Words.
So I tell you this, and insist on it in the Lord, that you must no longer live as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their thinking. 18 They are darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their hearts. Eph 4
Many former Adventists are twice dead(physically & spiritually) in GOD's eyes.
The death cannot sing your praise; The living, the living—they praise you, as I am doing today;
And tell their children about your faithfulness. Isaiah 38:18-19
 
I can discern, that many think Jesus lied.
Discernment isn't your forte Mike. What if some did not believe, were without faith? Does their lack of faith nullify God's word? Of course not!
So believing a lie will remove salvation from a soul, who does not repent, Right ???
A backslider, a heart that turns from God, will be filled with his own shenanigans; (Prov 14:14)
That is the problem with unfulfilled prophecy, it is easy to make assumptions before fulfillment.
For Christ is the fulfillment of the Law of Moses for the justification of everyone who has faith. Rom 10:4
OT prophets had a terrible time with GOD's enemies on that. DUH !!!
No one could say that they were trying to tickle the ears. "Why will you die?" Ezekiel 33:11, Ezekiel 18:31
As an former Adventist, when this takes place, you personally can influence GOD's salvation decision for yourself, with no excuses.
And from the Law of Moses and from the Prophets Paul tried to persuade them about Jesus. Some believed but others refused to believe, were hardened. Acts 28:23-24
He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts,... Isaiah said this because he saw Jesus’ glory and spoke about Him. John 12:40-42
I fine it interesting your god changes, and my GOD does not.
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever. Hebrews 13:8
Time will tell who knew GOD better, per GOD's Words.
So I tell you this, and insist on it in the Lord, that you must no longer live as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their thinking. 18 They are darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their hearts. Eph 4
Many former Adventists are twice dead(physically & spiritually) in GOD's eyes.
The dead cannot sing your praise; The living, the living—they praise you, as I am doing today;
And tell their children about your faithfulness. Isaiah 38:18-19

And I heard them saying,
“To Him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be the blessing, the honor, the glory, and the dominion forever and ever.” Revelation 5:12-13
 
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My wife comes from a Charismatic background. I told her I had issues with the Charismatic movement. So do lots of people. I had a book about the problems that I asked her to read. I thought it would be a good way to open up discussion and study the issue. Looking at different positions and seeing where paths diverge is healthy for one's faith, which is why God said people should be like the Bereans.

She read about the first three pages, got angry and refused to even look at the book anymore. I was dumbfounded at the reaction and pretty disheartened by it. It What I thought would be beneficial discussion just led to anger.

Once false doctrine gets a hook in a person, it can be hard to get it out. And that is understandable. It is hard to admit one is bamboozled. It is even harder if it is a generational thing. Then one has to admit their parents were bamboozled, they were bamboozled, and they bamboozled their own children.

It really makes one realize that anyone coming to faith is a miracle. Only God can get through to people at the end of the day.

Was the book by John MacArthur?
 
Except that God does not ever contradict Himself, as He seems to be doing with your "revelations"
Paul is not God.
For what we preach is not ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, 2 Cor 4:5
That is what you don't understand. Not all of Paul's words were inspired by God.
Paul was indeed inspired by God in the same way as John, Peter etc.

That by revelation He made known to me the mystery by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ,
which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets;
Ephesians 3:3-6

The Spirit of Truth [John 14:17-19]
And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24

Therefore, with minds that are alert and fully sober, set your hope on the grace to be brought to you when Jesus Christ is revealed; 1 Peter 1:13
 
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While working as a mental health case manager, I learned not to argue with clients about their delusions. They don't exist, so why bother?

However, the situation at hand has certain familiar aspects to my working with schizophrenic clients, and that is they are unflinchingly loyal to their delusions. One of my clients asked his psychiatrist, also a medical missionary, "How do I get rid of the demons, Doc?" He said, "You can't, but only the blood of Christ can do it." In a private conversation, he confirmed the essence of what my client stated.

Another client of mine reacted positively when I told her to say to her demons, "In the name of Jesus, go away from me!"

Any Evangelical who has looked at the things in the Bible regarding demonic activity can see where demons were behind the Gerasene Demoniac in Mark 5.

Other examples in the Gospels and Acts include these:
  • Physical Illness Several specific physical afflictions are attributed to demons in the Bible. Jesus cast a demon out of a dumb man who immediately began to speak (Matt. 9:32, 33). On another occasion, a blind man began to see when the demon went out of him (Matt. 12:22).
  • Mental Impairment When Israel left Egypt, God gave them the land of Canaan. One of the reasons God wanted them in a separate land was that the heathen nations had given themselves over to unclean spirits and had become: corrupted (Lev. 18; Deut. 18).
  • The Spread of False Doctrine Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons. 1 Timothy 4:1
  • Spiritual Warfare Part of the work of demons, particularly as it relates to the Christian life, is doing battle with Christians on the spiritual level. This condition is the reason behind the apostolic imperative, “Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil.” (Eph. 6:11)
  • Possession On many occasions demon possession resulted in mental derangement. In most cases recorded in Scripture, the person possessed was apparently responsible for being possessed.
Common to all of these is the first question asked by the Chief Demon, Satan when He asked Eve, "Did God really say THAT? Satan was actually asking if it was a possibility for God to lie when He instructed Adam, "Do not eat of the fruit of that particular tree". I see the unknowing participants in the Charismania movement asking the same and not liking the answer, so they simply ignore what God clearly stated.

Therefore, Yashuahfan, your concern for the spiritual condition of CharismaticLady is well-founded, and I share that concern.

From her posts, it is evident that she has little or no experience with systematic theology. Systematic theology isa great tool because it takes the interlocking propositions of Scriptures, and builds theological walls which essentially say, "Go no further than this."

The problem with "Charismania" is that it (and the intertwining so-called "prosperity Gospel") tells people that they can have a greater EXPERIENCE than others if they get "slain in the spirit" of have "holy laughter" etc.

For sure, those in the "charismania churches" do not bother to act like Bereans to check the Scriptures to see if things be as are going on in front of them because they feel so good when they are done, how that be so wrong?

In other words, their experiences override their allegiance to what God clearly wrote in His Bible. I believe that is the main reason why CL does not respond to challenges to so-called "charismania". To do so would cause great discomfort for her and others because she would then "lose a justification for doing something that "feels so good to do".
Just check to see their traditional responses to books written by the likes of Dr Macarthur and DR Connell!
 
Prologue:
AV Mt 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

I can discern, that many think Jesus lied. So believing a lie will remove salvation from a soul, who does not repent, Right ???

That is the problem with unfulfilled prophecy, it is easy to make assumptions before fulfillment. OT prophets had a terrible time with GOD's enemies on that. DUH !!!

As an former Adventist, when this takes place, you personally can influence GOD's salvation decision for yourself, with no excuses.

AV Isa 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, [from] doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking [thine own] words:

I fine it interesting your god changes, and my GOD does not. Time will tell who knew GOD better, per GOD's Words.

AV Mt 8:22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

Following Jesus to church, is a big issue with many, Right ???

Many former Adventists are twice dead(physically & spiritually) in GOD's eyes.

Yours in Christ, Michael
Those former Sda who have come to the real Jesus thru the real Gospel have been saved!
 
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This is the vision concerning Judah and Jerusalem that Isaiah son of Amoz saw during the reigns of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah. Isaiah 1:1 BSB

My God does not change either. However, I recognize that He makes it clear who he is addressing when it comes to the Old Covenant.

The apostles and the elders came together to look into this matter. After there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Brethren, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles would hear the word of the gospel and believe. “And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us; and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith. “Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? “But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are.” Acts 15:6-11 NASB

and they sent this letter by them,

“The apostles and the brethren who are elders, to the brethren in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia who are from the Gentiles, greetings.

“Since we have heard that some of our number to whom we gave no instruction have disturbed you with their words, unsettling your souls,
it seemed good to us, having become of one mind, to select men to send to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
“Therefore we have sent Judas and Silas, who themselves will also report the same things by word of mouth.
“For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these essentials:
that you abstain from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication; if you keep yourselves free from such things, you will do well. Farewell.” Acts 15:23-29 NASB
God has made it clear that Gentile Christians are not under the Mosaic Covenant, and that includes circumcision, the food laws, the feasts and festivals, and the Sabbath.
As Peter stated, the Jews could not ever keep them, why c]put gentiles under that burden and yoke of bondage?
 
My wife comes from a Charismatic background. I told her I had issues with the Charismatic movement. So do lots of people. I had a book about the problems that I asked her to read. I thought it would be a good way to open up discussion and study the issue. Looking at different positions and seeing where paths diverge is healthy for one's faith, which is why God said people should be like the Bereans.

She read about the first three pages, got angry and refused to even look at the book anymore. I was dumbfounded at the reaction and pretty disheartened by it. It What I thought would be beneficial discussion just led to anger.

Once false doctrine gets a hook in a person, it can be hard to get it out. And that is understandable. It is hard to admit one is bamboozled. It is even harder if it is a generational thing. Then one has to admit their parents were bamboozled, they were bamboozled, and they bamboozled their own children.

It really makes one realize that anyone coming to faith is a miracle. Only God can get through to people at the end of the day.
One really good book is by DR McConnell Another Gospel, and he is a charismatic from oral Roberts taking their heresies on!
Being a Charasmatic, critics cannot use ole "he is spiritual blind"
 
Paul is not God.
Neither are you God, nor are you an Apostle. Therefore, your denigrating what Paul wrote in his 13 (or 14 epistles of the 27 in the New Testament) is really an act of haughty arrogance and not submission to the authority of an Apostle.


That is what you don't understand.
We understand, all right, You are simply making an unsupportable leap of logic, which has its ultimate aim of attempting to destroy the unity and the message of God to His Apostle.

Not all of Paul's words were inspired by God.

You have no basis to say that, except your personal misunderstanding of the New Testament, You are making wild assessments which have no basis in fact other than your own prejudice. Simply put, your reasons for your position are not based upon anything that has come up in the 2000 years since Paul wrote those Epistles but upon your conversation with an unknown entity, whom you mislabel as "God".

Really, is it a reasonable position that of all the billions of people who lived since the Epistles were written that God, the ultimate author of Scripture would choose you as a singular messenger to attempt to destroy what He, Himself uniquely authored?

The reality is that in the 4000 years between Job first writing his book and now, you cannot document any time nor place where God told a single person such as you to destroy what He has created. The conclusion is that despite your protestations, it is manifestly not the God of Scripture who told you that it is OK to take pot shots at an Apostle, and the words he wrote.

The conclusion is inescapable, and I will leave it to you to flesh it out.
 
Neither are you God, nor are you an Apostle. Therefore, your denigrating what Paul wrote in his 13 (or 14 epistles of the 27 in the New Testament) is really an act of haughty arrogance and not submission to the authority of an Apostle.



We understand, all right, You are simply making an unsupportable leap of logic, which has its ultimate aim of attempting to destroy the unity and the message of God to His Apostle.



You have no basis to say that, except your personal misunderstanding of the New Testament, You are making wild assessments which have no basis in fact other than your own prejudice. Simply put, your reasons for your position are not based upon anything that has come up in the 2000 years since Paul wrote those Epistles but upon your conversation with an unknown entity, whom you mislabel as "God".

Really, is it a reasonable position that of all the billions of people who lived since the Epistles were written that God, the ultimate author of Scripture would choose you as a singular messenger to attempt to destroy what He, Himself uniquely authored?

The reality is that in the 4000 years between Job first writing his book and now, you cannot document any time nor place where God told a single person such as you to destroy what He has created. The conclusion is that despite your protestations, it is manifestly not the God of Scripture who told you that it is OK to take pot shots at an Apostle, and the words he wrote.

The conclusion is inescapable, and I will leave it to you to flesh it out.
To take apart the Word of God, call into question the authors to my mind you have to be a functioning atheist.
Where does it leave the listener? Can’t trust the Bible, can’t trust anyone else so what are people supposed to do?
Isaiah 55:8-11
8 “For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways,” declares the Lord.
9 “For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are My ways higher than your ways
And My thoughts than your thoughts.
10 “For as the rain and the snow come down from heaven,
And do not return there without watering the earth
And making it bear and sprout,
And furnishing seed to the sower and bread to the eater;
11 So will My word be which goes forth from My mouth;
It will not return to Me empty,
Without accomplishing what I desire,
And without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it.
 
To take apart the Word of God, call into question the authors to my mind you have to be a functioning atheist.
Where does it leave the listener? Can’t trust the Bible, can’t trust anyone else so what are people supposed to do?

Good point

@CharismaticLady
This is just one of several conclusions to which I am attempting to demonstrate the end game of your false conclusions of the "god" who told her not to trust the words of Paul.
 
Neither are you God, nor are you an Apostle. Therefore, your denigrating what Paul wrote in his 13 (or 14 epistles of the 27 in the New Testament) is really an act of haughty arrogance and not submission to the authority of an Apostle.



We understand, all right, You are simply making an unsupportable leap of logic, which has its ultimate aim of attempting to destroy the unity and the message of God to His Apostle.



You have no basis to say that, except your personal misunderstanding of the New Testament, You are making wild assessments which have no basis in fact other than your own prejudice. Simply put, your reasons for your position are not based upon anything that has come up in the 2000 years since Paul wrote those Epistles but upon your conversation with an unknown entity, whom you mislabel as "God".

Really, is it a reasonable position that of all the billions of people who lived since the Epistles were written that God, the ultimate author of Scripture would choose you as a singular messenger to attempt to destroy what He, Himself uniquely authored?

The reality is that in the 4000 years between Job first writing his book and now, you cannot document any time nor place where God told a single person such as you to destroy what He has created. The conclusion is that despite your protestations, it is manifestly not the God of Scripture who told you that it is OK to take pot shots at an Apostle, and the words he wrote.

The conclusion is inescapable, and I will leave it to you to flesh it out.
The Apostles were unique, as their written words were the very words of God unto us penned down, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, and He would NEVER contradict Himself, so her claims that God has revealed to her areas where Paul was wrong is either self delusion or demonic!
 
This is just one of several conclusions to which I am attempting to demonstrate the end game of your false conclusions of the "god" who told her not to trust the words of Paul.
All I hear in CL's words is "Yea, hath God said...?" 😭

Another difficulty is that if we are not sure of what Paul wrote, then how can we be sure of 2Ti 3:16: All Scripture [is] God-breathed, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, [MKJV1962]?

Or even 1Th 5: Prove all things, hold fast to the good. [MKJV1962]

And if the Apostle, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit of Truth, could play fast and loose with the Truth, who can be sure that what Paul's companion, Luke, wrote is true? Maybe Acts and Luke's Gospel are false. From there it is a short hop to doubting all of Scripture.

"Yea, hath God said?"

--Rich
 
For what we preach is not ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, 2 Cor 4:5

Paul was indeed inspired by God in the same way as John, Peter etc.

That by revelation He made known to me the mystery by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ,
which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets;
Ephesians 3:3-6

The Spirit of Truth [John 14:17-19]
And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24

Therefore, with minds that are alert and fully sober, set your hope on the grace to be brought to you when Jesus Christ is revealed; 1 Peter 1:13
Formersda said:
To take apart the Word of God, call into question the authors to my mind you have to be a functioning atheist.
Where does it leave the listener? Can’t trust the Bible, can’t trust anyone else so what are people supposed to do?

John t

Good point

@CharismaticLady
This is just one of several conclusions to which I am attempting to demonstrate the end game of your false conclusions of the "god" who told her not to trust the words of Paul.

Jon:
It is not as though Paul had a private interpretation,
God raised Him from the dead—and all the brothers and sisters with me,; 3 Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, 4 who gave himself for our sins to rescue us from the present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father, 5 to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen. Gal 1
 
All Scripture is given by inspiriation. IOW God's words. All of Paul's opinions do not count as God's words. Especially, when God said He didn't say that to him.


The key word is "scripture." And "scripture" are words of God, not Paul's personal opinions. To know the difference, you need to spiritually discern God's voice, and ask Him. I did, and He told me. I am NOT sinning. But you being a man don't care to ask. That's okay, you are not hurting me, and if you did I would forgive you anyway. You are not in the minority - I am. But then again "few there are" who care to ask. James 1:5-6

Paul is not God. That is what you don't understand. Not all of Paul's words were inspired by God.
 
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