Ask a mason anything you want to know!

[Truth7t7]

"Freemasonry does not have a sermon, nor do they give the Eucharist, Mass, or Holy Communion. There is no offer of baptism, and the fraternity has no creed or religious dogma. There is no offer of salvation. Freemasonry is secular. The fraternity tells no member how to worship, nor which religion to worship with, and a member’s religion is private to him. The candidate is told at the beginning that Freemasonry is not a religion, nor is it a substitute for one. Freemasonry can not save you, but only help to make you a better man and a moral person. It teaches religious tolerance and is anti-bigotry. The closest thing to being religious is a prayer during Lodge, and a graveside prayer ceremony for a members death, if it is requested, just as it is done in other fraternities, labor unions, and many governments. Freemasonry is the oldest labor union on earth, after all, which was turned into a fraternal organization in 1717." From a non-masonic source.

"The Mason's official position states that Freemasonry is not a religion. "Masons who treat it as such are mistaken. Freemasonry strongly encourages its members to belong to an established religion, although this is not a requirement for membership (only that a candidate profess a belief in a Supreme Being). Masonry is a fraternal organization that encourages morality and charity and studies philosophy. It has no clergy, no sacraments, and does not promise salvation to its members" (Roger Firestone, Difficult Questions About Freemasonry, 2002). "

There is no "observance of the many gods of the world" (BTW, by making such a statement, you are speaking a heretical doctrine, in Christianity there is only ONE God.). It has been proven above that the "Luciferian doctrine", as antimasonic cultists like to call it, primarily comes from the Taxil Hoax forgeries, although you could also point to a sheer ignorance of the Bible.

From Calvin's Commentaries: "12. How art thou fallen from heaven! Isaiah proceeds with the discourse which he had formerly begun as personating the dead, and concludes that the tyrant differs in no respect from other men, though his object was to lead men to believe that he was some god. He employs an elegant metaphor, by comparing him to Lucifer, and calls him the Son of the Dawn; 220 and that on account of his splendor and brightness with which he shone above others. The exposition of this passage, which some have given, as if it referred to Satan, has arisen from ignorance; for the context plainly shows that these statements must be understood in reference to the king of the Babylonians. But when passages of Scripture are taken up at random, and no attention is paid to the context, we need not wonder that mistakes of this kind frequently arise. Yet it was an instance of very gross ignorance, to imagine that Lucifer was the king of devils, and that the Prophet gave him this name. But as these inventions have no probability whatever, let us pass by them as useless fables."

Calvin is not the only Biblical scholar to note this (which comes from St. Jerome's translation of the Greek into the Latin, which when translated back into English would look rather silly as "Venus" which would have been more in context as the dawn star, so they kept the Latin name Lucifer. From that has spawned centuries of false teaching that the adversary was called Lucifer. Many also think the adversary's name is Satan (which means adversary in Hebrew).

Still see you are avoiding commenting on the multiple examples of speaking (well, typing) incorrect statements in the thread above. You do realize that that those that do avoidance like that show a certain kind of fruit that is not praised by the Bible, don't you?

Nice to know you can claim to know the heart condition of your grandfathers with all your claims. Do you realize what you just did Mr. Truth7t7?

1. Does freemasonry require belief in a supreme being?

2. Does freemasonry have initiates take oaths/obligations on a holy book of their choice, Bible, Quran, etc?

3. Does freemasonry teach the fatherhood of god and the brotherhood of man?

 

[kamaeq]

Does the initiate in the 3rd degree get raised from a position of laying down, after that of Hiram Abiff?

Oh, so you are not saying that the raising is a "raising of the dead"? THAT would be a new one for someone traveling down the path you have followed so far. Yes, the candidate is helped up off the floor.

 

[Truth7t7]

You mean "raised" as in "raised from the dead"?

ROFL!

In the fable, the dead body of Hiram Abiff, upon being located, was raised from the hasty grave he was buried in after his murder, to be moved to a place for a proper burial with respect.

It has already been shown in this thread that the "Luciferian doctrine" is a teaching of antimasonry that claims to be Christian based on the writings of a forger and ignorance of the Bible.

We have come upon another interesting development in the false teachings of the antimason, one which virtually all of them fall to in proof of their status.

You evaded my direct question, we will try again

Does the initiate in the 3rd degree get raised from a position of laying down, after that of Hiram Abiff?

 

[kamaeq]

1. Does freemasonry require belief in a supreme being?

2. Does freemasonry have initiates take oaths/obligations on a holy book of their choice, Bible, Quran, etc?

3. Does freemasonry teach the fatherhood of god and the brotherhood of man?

Yes to all three. I already know the hay your are going to attempt to make by pure bluster.

If you choose to define these as a valid religion, then you not only make virtually all non-Christian religions equally valid, but you make them the equal of Christianity, because the mere belief in the Creator, following the teachings of a holy book and acknowledging that the Creator is the father of us all and that all men are fellow creations of that Creator.

So, do you deny there is a Creator? Or do you deny that God is the Creator?

Do you deny that for a secular organization, a person should take an obligation on a book other than the one that person considers sacred? (Heh, this one is actually so silly, because it practically proves that Freemasonry is a secular fraternity, otherwise as some mish mash religion of everything, it wouldn't care what book was used.)

Do you deny that the Creator is the Father of all the creation? That all creations made in His image are not fellow siblings? You would ask Him: "Am I my brothers' keeper?" with the "lesson" you appear to be heading for.

In reality it has already been shown that John 8:48 appears to apply in this case.

 

[kamaeq]

You evaded my direct question, we will try again

Does the initiate in the 3rd degree get raised from a position of laying down, after that of Hiram Abiff?

Already answered directly in the post you directly asked it in. Stop confessing by projecting, it isn't a good look.

Aha, I see, since I was in the middle of writing complete replies your little snipe post crossed me while I was working down the list and now you claim my response to the post BEFORE you asked your little question was an evasion of answering the post you did ask the question in. How so very, very honest of you.

Of course, the sheer hypocrisy in view. Should I go back and count all of the many direct questions that a certain hypocritical poster has failed to answer because it would require him to admit error?

 

[Truth7t7]

Yes to all three. I already know the hay your are going to attempt to make by pure bluster.

No bluster whatsoever, Freemasonry is a religious Org 100%

1 Supreme Being, god of you choice

2. Holy Religious Books of choice

3 Fatherhood of god

If that ain't religion, then the Colonel at Kentucky Fried ain't cooking chickens!

 

[Truth7t7]

Already answered directly in the post you directly asked it in. Stop confessing by projecting, it isn't a good look.

Aha, I see, since I was in the middle of writing complete replies your little snipe post crossed me while I was working down the list and now you claim my response to the post BEFORE you asked your little question was an evasion of answering the post you did ask the question in. How so very, very honest of you.

Of course, the sheer hypocrisy in view. Should I go back and count all of the many direct questions that a certain hypocritical poster has failed to answer because it would require him to admit error?

You didnt answer directly, the initiate is lifted/raised to his feet, from laying down previously, in representation of the supposed master builder Hiram Abiff was raised/lifted

Dont forget the strong grip of the lions paw, dont want to let that hand slip when the initiate is raised, after suffering from a brain concussion, smiles!

Have you rode the goat, hang on tight, the lodge brothers have been waiting for your initiation night, the room is full, with smiles from ear to ear!

Antique Masonic Lodge fraternal iniation goat in as found condition.

Goat carts, made by DeMoulin Bros., were used by Lodges and Fraternal Groups during initiation ceremonies. An inductee would ride the goat blindfolded while being pushed around the room by Lodge members. The DeMoulin Bros. first product was made in 1892 and quickly became a popular item, especially with Mason and Odd Fellow Lodges.

The Goat is usually the first “stunt” introduced to a candidate; he is hoodwinked in ante-room and when he enters the Lodge room he is picked up and placed on the Goat and given a ride several times around the Lodge room and dismounted in front of the Chief Officer’s Station, where he is presented for instructions. Hard to find. Now own one for your riding pleasure. Display as is or have restored, it’s up to you…………

.

 

[kamaeq]

No bluster whatsoever, Freemasonry is a religious Org 100%

1 Supreme Being, god of you choice

2. Holy Religious Books of choice

3 Fatherhood of god

If that ain't religion, then the Colonel at Kentucky Fried ain't cooking chickens!

Because it is philosophy. They shut down the original KFC and the replacement one here a long time ago. They had found some fried rat that had fallen into the oil...

Simply acknowledging there is a Supreme Being because the creation declares a Creator, while saying that with reason alone, men cannot discern which of the religions are true. Biblical position.

See above, same thing applies.

If the Creator does not stand as parent to the creation, then WHO DOES?

So, why did you snip the rest of the post?
Why did you fevade the direct questions I posed to you in that post that you hid by snipping?
Do you realize by demanding I must answer your direct questions but you try to hide that I even asked you a direct question does not look good for the screen name you have chosen?

See, I knew where you were going and you went there. Hiding away and evading direct questions that destroy your position.

Are you ever going to answer any of the many direct questions I have asked you to clarify your position?
Or are you just going to prance around, be proven wrong repeatedly, never answer any questions and make claims based on your authori-tie?
BTW, what do you mean when you say Hiram Abiff was "raised"?

Do you realize that I, as a Christian, am not afraid of the doctrines of demons taught by the followers of the cult of antimasonry?

 

[kamaeq]

You didnt answer directly, the initiate is lifted/raised to his feet, from laying down previously, in representation of the supposed master builder Hiram Abiff was raised/lifted

Dont forget the strong grip of the lions paw, dont want to let that hand slip when the initiate is raised, after suffering from a brain concussion, smiles!

Have you rode the goat, hang on tight, the lodge brothers have been waiting for your initiation night, the room is full, with smiles from ear to ear!

Antique Masonic Lodge fraternal iniation goat in as found condition.

Goat carts, made by DeMoulin Bros., were used by Lodges and Fraternal Groups during initiation ceremonies. An inductee would ride the goat blindfolded while being pushed around the room by Lodge members. The DeMoulin Bros. first product was made in 1892 and quickly became a popular item, especially with Mason and Odd Fellow Lodges.

The Goat is usually the first “stunt” introduced to a candidate; he is hoodwinked in ante-room and when he enters the Lodge room he is picked up and placed on the Goat and given a ride several times around the Lodge room and dismounted in front of the Chief Officer’s Station, where he is presented for instructions. Hard to find. Now own one for your riding pleasure. Display as is or have restored, it’s up to you…………

.

Yes, I did in response to the post where you actually asked the question. However, YOU still haven't answered any number of direct questions that YOU have been asked. So, Mr. Truth7t7, how does it feel to be exposed as an apparent hypocrite? Because there are pages of posts and lots of direct questions you have been failing to answer for months now. Get cracking! Start answering!

Or we can remove the "apparent" from the question above and replace it with "open" if you wish, do you?

No? Get cracking! Start answering!

Or be the usual antimason who claims to be Christian and simply slink away.


And on to something a bit more than the silliness you posted, because nobody can figure it out except as a hazing joke used in many fraternal groups, interestingly enough MWA and Odd Fellows are the listed buyers for most of them although "other fraternal groups" gets a mention and phoenixmasonry (dot) org has a story about one of the antiques. The Moulin Brothers apparently like to make up "side degrees" and sell comedy products to go with them. It entered the slang for a time a century ago so that "ride the goat" meant joining a fraternal group.

Riding the Goat​

While it is one of the lesser-known paintings in his collection, Coolidge’s Riding the Goat has ignited many a discussion within Masonic circles over the years. Initial descriptions referred to the picture as a jester entertaining a royal couple; however, the overt Masonic references in the image ultimately made it synonymous with Masonic initiations. Indeed, the term ‘Riding the Goat’ was a common phrase that meant becoming a Freemason in the early 20th century.

Cassius Marcellus Coolidge’s ‘Riding the Goat
While the concept of dogs performing a Masonic ritual is plenty entertaining on a superficial level, Coolidge does a splendid job of weaving into the painting symbols of real Masonic significance. Most brethren agree that while the work generally references Freemasonry as a whole, it more explicitly presents an articulation of the first degree through which a Mason first joins into the brotherhood.


The painting illustrates a group of dogs in a room bearing a striking resemblance to a lodge room. In the image, they perform a ritual in which one blindfolded dog rides a goat in the center of the room. The blindfold appears in each of the three degrees of blue lodge Freemasonry. Additionally, a rope called a cable toe sits around the blindfolded dog’s neck, another symbol of notable significance within the three degrees.


Finally, three dogs in the back of the painting represent the three principal officers of a Masonic Lodge. They all wear the jewels representing their office, with the final dog to the right wearing a red cap, which is an emblem in Scottish Rite Freemasonry.

And for something a bit more directly related.

The DeMoulin Factory​

Riding the Goat: A Business is Born​

The founding of DeMoulin Bros. and Co. was the result of a chain of events that began when William A. Northcott, a local attorney joined Greenville’s Modern Woodmen of America (MWA) camp and was soon representing the chapter at state and national conventions. In November 1890, Northcott was elected Head Consul of the MWA, the fraternal order’s highest position. Faced with the challenge of boosting the organization’s membership, he consulted his friend and fellow MWA member, Ed DeMoulin. This request set in motion a small fraternal paraphernalia and regalia business that eventually grew to become the nation’s leading band uniform manufacturer.


Ed discussed with his brothers Northcott’s dilemma and it was decided that they should create something based on “riding the goat,” a prank in which a man was carried on a rail hoisted by two men. The idea quickly met with favor among the Modern Woodmen of America camps. Ed DeMoulin was in the unusual position of having a business but no manufacturing plant so he enlisted the help of his brother, Erastus. Putting his blacksmithing talents to the test, Erastus made the earliest DeMoulin goats in his shop and then shipped them by horse and wagon to Greenville.

 

[kamaeq]

Actually, the first bit of an article that tries to make note of "a striking resemblance to a lodge room" gets a number of facts wrong or interprets them in a slanted manner. It is funny as heck, but the three dogs behind the bench to the left aren't wearing any symbols of any lodge office, the one on the right wouldn't be wearing a Scottish Rite hat in a lodge, the supposed other Scottish Rite hat would be a 50 year hat and I'm not real sure that it is that old.

In my experience, awards for long membership tend to be something that becomes more common as an organization gets closer to the current day, especially fraternal ones with their post-WW2 boom meaning many members couldn't get the limited offices and normal awards so to give the run of the mill members something, "service awards" like longevity ones were created and added.

That doesn't even touch on the fact that except under very rare circumstances not present in this picture, only one person can wear a hat in a lodge at a time.

Oh, and the wizard dog doing the conducting has zero to do with anything masonic.

There is a lot being "read into" that picture to make it "masonic".

So really, all that entire incident represents is an attempt to distract from the fact that a certain poster cannot deal with the body of the post being replied to. It uses made up trivia, some "spooky" sounding text from an unreliable source (because it has been shown to be false) and if it follows the common pattern, will also include a false accusation insulting a poor animal.
The purpose appears to be hiding the double standard that that poster is using in conversation here.

 

[Southsider071]

Must be a glutton for punishment, but here I go again.

If anyone has any questions about Freemasonry, please step up and ask. I will do my upmost best and answer honestly.
If you just want to throw stones, start your own thread.
I'm a 33rd degree Master Mason and have been involved with Freemasonry on a national and international stage for over 25 years. Mainly working with the Scottish Rite Childrens hospitals. I've personally flew 100's of kids and families to these hospitals for 40 some years. I took my passion for flying and turned it into a way to help a family.

So be nice, or be gone.

Straight questions with straight answers.

Is Freemasonry dying out?

I've noticed billboards advertising the outfit in recent years-something you'd never see back in the day.

And I watched a local parade several years ago featuring shriners in their fezzes driving around their mini cars, and only one of the fellows looked like he was under 60.

 

[kamaeq]

Is Freemasonry dying out?

I've noticed billboards advertising the outfit in recent years-something you'd never see back in the day.

And I watched a local parade several years ago featuring shriners in their fezzes driving around their mini cars, and only one of the fellows looked like he was under 60.

All fraternal groups are declining in membership these days for a variety of reasons. It's nothing new and has happened before, I've read articles written a century ago that were complaining about the same issues on declining membership that are talked about today. It was followed by the biggest boom in membership in fraternal groups post-WW2.
There does appear to be a cyclical boom and bust in members.

IMO, this one is terminal, but that is based on my views on Christian eschatology not anything I can point to. Freemasonry is antithetical to both Churchianity spreading and socialist ideology. Yes, the Churchians will submit to the State as deity just like their counterparts did in Europe 90+ years ago. Note that I do not claim to be a prophet or have any special "word" here, just something from my study of the Bible and history.

 

[Shulammite]

Must be a glutton for punishment, but here I go again.

If anyone has any questions about Freemasonry, please step up and ask. I will do my upmost best and answer honestly.
If you just want to throw stones, start your own thread.
I'm a 33rd degree Master Mason and have been involved with Freemasonry on a national and international stage for over 25 years. Mainly working with the Scottish Rite Childrens hospitals. I've personally flew 100's of kids and families to these hospitals for 40 some years. I took my passion for flying and turned it into a way to help a family.

So be nice, or be gone.

Straight questions with straight answers.

What I find funny is you say you are a 33rd degree Master mason .... please by all means explain what this means.

 

[SimpleMan]

What I find funny is you say you are a 33rd degree Master mason .... please by all means explain what this means.

I obtained my first 3 degrees in my home Blue Lodge, then attended my local Scottish Rite for degrees 4 thru 32.
After decades of being a mason I was awarded the honorary 33rd degree.

 

[Magdalena]

Must be a glutton for punishment, but here I go again.

If anyone has any questions about Freemasonry, please step up and ask. I will do my upmost best and answer honestly.
If you just want to throw stones, start your own thread.
I'm a 33rd degree Master Mason and have been involved with Freemasonry on a national and international stage for over 25 years. Mainly working with the Scottish Rite Childrens hospitals. I've personally flew 100's of kids and families to these hospitals for 40 some years. I took my passion for flying and turned it into a way to help a family.

So be nice, or be gone.

Straight questions with straight answers.

How do masons feel about Joseph Smith appropriating many of their rituals, clothing, signs, tokens, penalties, etc. for his mormon temple ceremonies?

 

[kamaeq]

How do masons feel about Joseph Smith appropriating many of their rituals, clothing, signs, tokens, penalties, etc. for his mormon temple ceremonies?

Mostly ignore it, although I've heard that there was a long time where the Grand Lodges in Mormon areas would not accept Mormons as Masons over it.
Personally, I find it amusing when some of the antimasons who claim to be Christian try to paint Freemasonry as some subsidiary cult to Mormonism.

In fact there is a website that is kinda both Ex Mormons For Jesus and Ex Masons For Jesus. Usual stuff, fake claims about Freemasonry from people grifting while claiming to be Christian.

 

[rossh]

Must be a glutton for punishment, but here I go again.

If anyone has any questions about Freemasonry, please step up and ask. I will do my upmost best and answer honestly.
If you just want to throw stones, start your own thread.
I'm a 33rd degree Master Mason and have been involved with Freemasonry on a national and international stage for over 25 years. Mainly working with the Scottish Rite Childrens hospitals. I've personally flew 100's of kids and families to these hospitals for 40 some years. I took my passion for flying and turned it into a way to help a family.

So be nice, or be gone.

Straight questions with straight answers.

Yes very good, I too am a Master Mason, both speculative and operative.. Masonry is NOT anti Christ in any way.

 

[rossh]

How do masons feel about Joseph Smith appropriating many of their rituals, clothing, signs, tokens, penalties, etc. for his mormon temple ceremonies?

No one cares..

 

[Markk]

Honest question: Do Masons pray openly in their meetings? And if so, who do they pray too?

 

[rossh]

Honest question: Do Masons pray openly in their meetings? And if so, who do they pray too?

We need to join them to find out I guess, but, they did pray to God during the RCC's persecution of all who went against the RCC and it's rituals etc;