RCs like a work based salvation

B

balshan

Well-known member
As Jesus said in Matt 19:23+, we are not saved by works, it is impossible for humans to save themselves. Paul also states the same it is not by works.

Matt 19:23+

23 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”

25 When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”

26 Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

eph 2:8+

. 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast

Scripture is clear salvation comes from God through faith and not works. Why is that not acceptable to RCs? If you break one law then you break then all. There is no mitigating circumstances at all, you either keep the law or you don't. Works do not save. Does this mean you and live a hedonist? The answer is a clear NO. If you are born again, saved by God all you want to do is please HIM.

Why do RCs see works as saving?
 
balshan said:
Why do RCs see works as saving?
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Because works are deeds done in and by the flesh. They are the world's attempt to reach God. They allow the flesh to boast - "Look what I have done! Look at ME! ME! ME!" This goes all the way back to the Garden of Eden when Adam and Eve made leaf coverings for themselves.

Christianity, however, is the record of how God reached down to mankind, doing all that needed to be done all by Himself. This is what the flesh hates, despises, and rebels against. The flesh refuses to turn from "It's all about ME!" to "It's all about THEE!"

--Rich
"Esse quam videri"
 
RiJoRi said:
Because works are deeds done in and by the flesh. They are the world's attempt to reach God. They allow the flesh to boast - "Look what I have done! Look at ME! ME! ME!" This goes all the way back to the Garden of Eden when Adam and Eve made leaf coverings for themselves.

Christianity, however, is the record of how God reached down to mankind, doing all that needed to be done all by Himself. This is what the flesh hates, despises, and rebels against. The flesh refuses to turn from "It's all about ME!" to "It's all about THEE!"

--Rich
"Esse quam videri"
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yes, the rcc hates Christianity. that's why it teaches its followers to not trust Christ, but to trust in it and to do works (that it makes up) for their pretend salvation.
 
RiJoRi said:
Because works are deeds done in and by the flesh. They are the world's attempt to reach God. They allow the flesh to boast - "Look what I have done! Look at ME! ME! ME!" This goes all the way back to the Garden of Eden when Adam and Eve made leaf coverings for themselves.

Christianity, however, is the record of how God reached down to mankind, doing all that needed to be done all by Himself. This is what the flesh hates, despises, and rebels against. The flesh refuses to turn from "It's all about ME!" to "It's all about THEE!"

--Rich
"Esse quam videri"
Click to expand...
Then their leaders like those flashy garments which also say look at me, I have risen high in this man made institution by works. Not necessary good works at all, but works.
 
The Council of Trent made the traditional meaning clear at the time of the new interpretations...

But when the Apostle says that man is justified by faith and freely, these words are to be understood in that sense in which the uninterrupted unanimity of the Catholic Church has held and expressed them, namely, that we are therefore said to be justified by faith, because faith is the beginning of human salvation, the foundation and root of all justification, without which it is impossible to please God and to come to the fellowship of His sons; and we are therefore said to be justified gratuitously, because none of those things that precede justification, whether faith or works, merit the grace of justification. For, if by grace, it is not now by works, otherwise, as the Apostle says, grace is no more grace.

RiJoRi said:
Because works are deeds done in and by the flesh. They are the world's attempt to reach God. They allow the flesh to boast - "Look what I have done! Look at ME! ME! ME!" This goes all the way back to the Garden of Eden when Adam and Eve made leaf coverings for themselves.

Christianity, however, is the record of how God reached down to mankind, doing all that needed to be done all by Himself. This is what the flesh hates, despises, and rebels against. The flesh refuses to turn from "It's all about ME!" to "It's all about THEE!"

--Rich
"Esse quam videri"
Click to expand...

The confident boasting was manifesting as a problem for the Reformists interpretation and Trent also addressed that...

AGAINST THE VAIN CONFIDENCE OF HERETICS​
But though it is necessary to believe that sins neither are remitted nor ever have been remitted except gratuitously by divine mercy for Christ's sake, yet it must not be said that sins are forgiven or have been forgiven to anyone who boasts of his confidence and certainty of the remission of his sins, resting on that alone, though among heretics and schismatics this vain and ungodly confidence may be and in our troubled times indeed is found and preached with untiring fury against the Catholic Church. Moreover, it must not be maintained, that they who are truly justified must needs, without any doubt whatever, convince themselves that they are justified, and that no one is absolved from sins and justified except he that believes with certainty that he is absolved and justified, and that absolution and justification are effected by this faith alone, as if he who does not believe this, doubts the promises of God and the efficacy of the death and resurrection of Christ. For as no pious person ought to doubt the mercy of God, the merit of Christ and the virtue and efficacy of the sacraments, so each one, when he considers himself and his own weakness and indisposition, may have fear and apprehension concerning his own grace, since no one can know with the certainty of faith, which cannot be subject to error, that he has obtained the grace of God.
 
Stella1000 said:
The Council of Trent made the traditional meaning clear at the time of the new interpretations...

But when the Apostle says that man is justified by faith and freely, these words are to be understood in that sense in which the uninterrupted unanimity of the Catholic Church has held and expressed them, namely, that we are therefore said to be justified by faith, because faith is the beginning of human salvation, the foundation and root of all justification, without which it is impossible to please God and to come to the fellowship of His sons; and we are therefore said to be justified gratuitously, because none of those things that precede justification, whether faith or works, merit the grace of justification. For, if by grace, it is not now by works, otherwise, as the Apostle says, grace is no more grace.



The confident boasting was manifesting as a problem for the Reformists interpretation and Trent also addressed that...

AGAINST THE VAIN CONFIDENCE OF HERETICS​
But though it is necessary to believe that sins neither are remitted nor ever have been remitted except gratuitously by divine mercy for Christ's sake, yet it must not be said that sins are forgiven or have been forgiven to anyone who boasts of his confidence and certainty of the remission of his sins, resting on that alone, though among heretics and schismatics this vain and ungodly confidence may be and in our troubled times indeed is found and preached with untiring fury against the Catholic Church. Moreover, it must not be maintained, that they who are truly justified must needs, without any doubt whatever, convince themselves that they are justified, and that no one is absolved from sins and justified except he that believes with certainty that he is absolved and justified, and that absolution and justification are effected by this faith alone, as if he who does not believe this, doubts the promises of God and the efficacy of the death and resurrection of Christ. For as no pious person ought to doubt the mercy of God, the merit of Christ and the virtue and efficacy of the sacraments, so each one, when he considers himself and his own weakness and indisposition, may have fear and apprehension concerning his own grace, since no one can know with the certainty of faith, which cannot be subject to error, that he has obtained the grace of God.
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"If you can't dazzle 'em with your brilliance,..."
And why should I accept the Tridentine Anti-Reformation Council's definition of RCC beliefs for myself? For it says that "no one can know that he has obtained the... [undeserved favor] of God." So the RCC god might bestow grace on his people, and he might save them and forgive them, but he'll never tell them that he has done so?

(Phone battery's going. CUL8R.)

--Rich
"Esse quam videri"
 
Theo1689 said:
Then why do you keep RUNNING AWAY from Eph. 2:8-9, 2 Tim. 1:9, Tit. 3:5, Rom. 4:1-6, 9:11-13, 11:5-6, etc. etc.?

What does "not by works" mean?
What does "righteousness APART from works" mean?
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Paul is referring to the works of the law, the ot law. We are not under the ot law.
 
RiJoRi said:
"If you can't dazzle 'em with your brilliance,..."
And why should I accept the Tridentine Anti-Reformation Council's definition of RCC beliefs for myself? For it says that "no one can know that he has obtained the... [undeserved favor] of God." So the RCC god might bestow grace on his people, and he might save them and forgive them, but he'll never tell them that he has done so?

(Phone battery's going. CUL8R.)

--Rich
"Esse quam videri"
Click to expand...
Why should we accept something that scripture never states?
 
Theo1689 said:
Then why do you keep RUNNING AWAY from Eph. 2:8-9, 2 Tim. 1:9, Tit. 3:5, Rom. 4:1-6, 9:11-13, 11:5-6, etc. etc.?

What does "not by works" mean?
What does "righteousness APART from works" mean?
Click to expand...
I think they are missing those verses in the RC bible.
 
dingoling. said:
We accept the CC's teachings because they have been given that authority.
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Oh this is easy, no they haven't. They are still bound by do not add, do not go beyond and do not take away/ignore scripture. They have no authority to mess with those scriptures at all. Evil leaders have shown which spirit is guiding them and they have no authority over real believers. V, the IC, the assumption, the working for your salvation to all that the RCC is not allowed to do.

The catechism is not infallible nor are the men who wrote it.
 
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