Sharing of Christ sufferings

dingoling. said:
What did Paul mean by it?

I think it means that in this life we shouldn't expect "a bed of roses".
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I have never encountered the notion among Christians that life is supposed to be a "bed of roses." On the other hand, we are not asked to actively seek out suffering either. After all, Christ Himself petitioned:

"Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done." (Luke 22:42)

So He asked for the impending suffering to be, if possible, taken from Him, yet subjected Himself to the will of His Father.
 
dingoling. said:
What did Paul mean by it?

I think it means that in this life we shouldn't expect "a bed of roses".
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Life is not a bed of roses for anyone. Not even the unsaved.

Paul's life:

He had an affliction, he travelled mainly by foot over thousands of miles, he was regularly jailed, he was tortured, he was run out of towns, he was martyred.

So it your life like that????
 
dingoling. said:
Paul's prayer is also my prayer:

I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the sharing of his sufferings by becoming like him in his death, if somehow I may attain the resurrection from the dead......Let those of us then who are mature be of the same mind.

So then yes let those of us who are mature be of the same mind.
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Sell all your belongings and move to an area of the world where Christians are under intense persecution.
 
dingoling. said:
We don't need to do that. Persecution can happen anywhere.
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Yep the talk of persecution is all you are interested in. If you want real persecution you would move to a country, where it really happens. Not just like things you see as persecution, like they were mean to me because I am an RC. The nuns taught they all hate us because we are RCs. But now as an adult we should be able to see there is a difference between real persecution and so called persecution. I mean even when in school uniform having stones thrown at me. I knew that the person didn't hate me, he had big problems that made him do those things. He needed help.

My goodness how will you ever stand up if you face the real thing. If you think you face it now. I mean I know RCs see the truth about their institution as hatred, but it isn't hate. It is just the truth, it is neutral. The fact that RCs see it as hate shows that they have never faced real hate. The apostles faced real hate.
 
Stella1000 said:
You say that as though it's just up to us to be born again? Our choice. This co-operation in our own conversion of heart is closer to Catholic teaching than you might realize ie co-operating with Gods grace by a free will choice.
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No, I do not think so.
#1) The Grace of GOD is sufficient in and of itself that we do not need to "cooperate" with it.
#2) GOD knew/knows every soul that would/will come to HIM when called before the foundations of the world were set.
#3) He knew/knows when to call them.
#4) Jesus will not lose a single one of us.

JOHN 6:39

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
 
leonard03782 said:
No, I do not think so.
#1) The Grace of GOD is sufficient in and of itself that we do not need to "cooperate" with it.
#2) GOD knew/knows every soul that would/will come to HIM when called before the foundations of the world were set.
#3) He knew/knows when to call them.
#4) Jesus will not lose a single one of us.

JOHN 6:39

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
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Do you see the irony in Spokenwords recommendation for our 'supposed' lack of faith as "then become Born Again biblically." It's either a failure to understand reformed theology or a sarcastic taunt.
 
Stella1000 said:
Do you see the irony in Spokenwords recommendation for our 'supposed' lack of faith as "then become Born Again biblically." It's either a failure to understand reformed theology or a sarcastic taunt.
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I am not sure which of his posts your are referring to. Your lack of faith in Jesus Christ has nothing to do with reformed theology. Your lack of faith in Jesus is directly related to your unwillingness to take the Word of GOD at face value. You would rather give the words men more value than to those infallible and inerrant Words spoken By GOD Himself. That is where the issue lies. Until you change that, you will be groping around as a blind man not seeing anything.

1 Corinthians 2:5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
 
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Stella1000 said:
So are you another like Spokenword that says that all we have to do to be in Christ is 'to become born again biblically'?
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Yes, I am. No one is 'in Christ' without it. do you think there is an unbiblical way?
what does 'born again' mean to you as a catholic?

I've noticed how often catholics here quote a verse to 'support' what they claim to believe, but the verse using 'we' in it is referring to those in scripture who have been born again. The 'we' isn't anyone who believed the teachings of the rcc. the rcc didn't exist then. Jesus and the apostles didn't teach what the rcc teaches.

If the verse is a promise (such as of forgiveness, eternal life etc), it is to those who actually do believe what they teach, not what the rcc teaches.
 
mica said:
Yes, I am. No one is 'in Christ' without it. do you think there is an unbiblical way?
what does 'born again' mean to you as a catholic?

I've noticed how often catholics here quote a verse to 'support' what they claim to believe, but the verse using 'we' in it is referring to those in scripture who have been born again. The 'we' isn't anyone who believed the teachings of the rcc. the rcc didn't exist then. Jesus and the apostles didn't teach what the rcc teaches.

If the verse is a promise (such as of forgiveness, eternal life etc), it is to those who actually do believe what they teach, not what the rcc teaches.
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Could it be that rc's do not understand that to be in Christ means have faith in the finished work of Jesus on the cross nor do they associate it with being born again. Perhaps they are like Nicodemus, they do not understand the biblical concept of being born again.
 
leonard03782 said:
Could it be that rc's do not understand that to be in Christ means have faith in the finished work of Jesus on the cross nor do they associate it with being born again. Perhaps they are like Nicodemus, they do not understand the biblical concept of being born again.
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Having thought about it, rc's do not believe that Jesus finished the work of redemption on the cross. they believe in purgatory and they believe that they must offer Jesus up as a sacrifice every single day of every single year as a propitiatory offering to GOD for their sins.
 
leonard03782 said:
Having thought about it, rc's do not believe that Jesus finished the work of redemption on the cross. they believe in purgatory and they believe that they must offer Jesus up as a sacrifice every single day of every single year as a propitiatory offering to GOD for their sins.
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no they don't, not His finished work. they believe what the rcc has taught them, that they have to help Him. His finished work wasn't enough.

catholics have no idea what they're missing by believing the rcc instead of Him.
 
leonard03782 said:
I am not sure which of his posts your are referring to. Your lack of faith in Jesus Christ has nothing to do with reformed theology. Your lack of faith in Jesus is directly related to your unwillingness to take the Word of GOD at face value. You would rather give the words men more value than to those infallible and inerrant Words spoken By GOD Himself. That is where the issue lies. Until you change that, you will be groping around as a blind man not seeing anything.

1 Corinthians 2:5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
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These are the words of men:

leonard03782 said:
No, I do not think so.
#1) The Grace of GOD is sufficient in and of itself that we do not need to "cooperate" with it.
#2) GOD knew/knows every soul that would/will come to HIM when called before the foundations of the world were set.
#3) He knew/knows when to call them.
#4) Jesus will not lose a single one of us.

These are the words of God:

JOHN 6:39

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
 
Johan said:
I have never encountered the notion among Christians that life is supposed to be a "bed of roses." On the other hand, we are not asked to actively seek out suffering either. After all, Christ Himself petitioned:

"Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done." (Luke 22:42)

So He asked for the impending suffering to be, if possible, taken from Him, yet subjected Himself to the will of His Father.
Click to expand...

No, we don't want to seek out suffering but that is what we should be expecting if we follow Christ.

Jesus said, "If they persecuted me, they will persecute you; if they kept my word, they will keep yours also."

Paul said, " I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the sharing of his sufferings by becoming like him in his death,"

He also said to Timothy, "Do not be ashamed, then, of the testimony about our Lord or of me his prisoner, but join with me in suffering for the gospel, relying on the power of God,"

Paul didn't tell Timothy to join him in proclaiming the gospel but join him in suffering for the gospel. We don't seem to here words like this in Christianity today.
 
dingoling. said:
No, we don't want to seek out suffering but that is what we should be expecting if we follow Christ.

Jesus said, "If they persecuted me, they will persecute you; if they kept my word, they will keep yours also."

Paul said, " I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the sharing of his sufferings by becoming like him in his death,"

He also said to Timothy, "Do not be ashamed, then, of the testimony about our Lord or of me his prisoner, but join with me in suffering for the gospel, relying on the power of God,"

Paul didn't tell Timothy to join him in proclaiming the gospel but join him in suffering for the gospel. We don't seem to here words like this in Christianity today.
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do you consider Lenten fasting as suffering?
 
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