Did Jesus really fulfill all of the laws???

According to the Tanakh, Israel entered the “promised land” which has actually been ruled by foreigners most of the time since they allegedly entered into it. Not much of a land for milk and honey, is it? More like a stone around their neck.
Blessings and curses for following the Torah.

Yeah, I know that but Israel is more westernized than strict Muslim countries like Saudi Arabia or Iran.
Well, you contradict yourself when you say you won't stand for any of that happening.

So I would hope the more civilized, rational people living in Israel would never allow the fringe religious people (like yourself) to start stoning people or estabish animal sacrifices. I guess it is possible.
Not the way its laid out in Tanakh. At one point the whole world will turn around and follow suite based on Messiah reigning in Israel.

Are they stoning people in the more liberal Muslim countries, like Qatar, Jordan, Lebanon?
They cut hands off for stealing I believe. Why aren't you speaking out against that and trying to stop it?
 
It is commonly said that Jesus fulfilled all of the laws, and in return fulfilled all of the laws for us. But is this really true?
You're confusing fulfillment with agency.

There are some commandments that he could not have fulfilled on his own, but with the help of others.

1) Circumcision - his parents had this done for him, i.e., Lev 12:3
The Law was fulfilled.

2) Consecration of first born - Joseph did this for him, i.e., Exodus 13:2
The Law was fulfilled.

3) Redemption of first born - Joseph did this for him, i.e., Numbers 18:15
The Law was fulfilled.

Are there more? Could be. But the point is that Jesus was "saved" as a result of others keeping the law for him.
Entirely immaterial.
 
You're confusing fulfillment with agency.

The Law was fulfilled.

The Law was fulfilled.

The Law was fulfilled.


Entirely immaterial.
Gee waht a great post. Can't think of any real responses to points, so just keep repeating. Maybe if you say it a hundred time it will come true.
 
Gee what a great post. Can't think of any real responses to points, so just keep repeating. Maybe if you say it a hundred time it will come true.
When sarcasm replaces sincerity, the sham is exposed.

My first word, "You are confusing fulfillment for agency..." was the entire point. The rest were mere illustrations.

I know this will be difficult to understand for the "real deal."
 
It is commonly said that Jesus fulfilled all of the laws, and in return fulfilled all of the laws for us.

I have never heard it said that way. Jesus fulfilled the Law. How did he do that? He lived an innocent/sinless life. To assume he fulfilled all of the laws shows ignorance or misrepresentation...
 
I have never heard it said that way. Jesus fulfilled the Law. How did he do that? He lived an innocent/sinless life. To assume he fulfilled all of the laws shows ignorance or misrepresentation...
If sin is the trasngression of the law, in order to be sinless, he would have had to have kept all the 613 laws perfectly.
 
DUH. Tell me something I don't already know.
Let me try: When you say this, "If sin is the trasngression of the law, in order to be sinless, he would have had to have kept all the 613 laws perfectly."

You don't know this, "Not all 613 Laws are meant for males." Or you don't know the meaning of reasonable discourse.
 
Let me try: When you say this, "If sin is the trasngression of the law, in order to be sinless, he would have had to have kept all the 613 laws perfectly."

You don't know this, "Not all 613 Laws are meant for males." Or you don't know the meaning of reasonable discourse.
You have mistaken a figure of speech for something literal. When we say "I follow the 613 laws" it means that we acknowledge them all, and we keep those which apply to us and are possible to keep. It does NOT mean that we literally obey all 613, including those that do not apply to us. I'm sure that J didn't obey the laws for women or priests. But he still kept the 613, as the figure of speech goes.
 
You have mistaken a figure of speech for something literal. When we say "I follow the 613 laws" it means that we acknowledge them all, and we keep those which apply to us and are possible to keep. It does NOT mean that we literally obey all 613, including those that do not apply to us. I'm sure that J didn't obey the laws for women or priests. But he still kept the 613, as the figure of speech goes.
But you have not kept the Mosaic laws. There has not been a temple in two thousand years to fulfill the requirements of the Mosaic law. Therefore, either they are required or they are not. If slaughtering animals and sprinkiling their blood is not required for you to be saved now, then they are not required. They are window dressing, symbols, figures for instruction AT BEST, useless at worst.

You do not get to say that they are required if you in fact live as if they are not required.

”“If you, though a Jew, live like a Gentile and not like a Jew, how can you force the Gentiles to live like Jews?” (Gal 2:14)
 
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and we keep those which apply to us and are possible to keep.

I believe this is where you miss it. The Mosaic Law has been dead since 30-33 AD. The complete end of it came in 70 AD. Either you keep the whole Law or are Guilty of not keeping it at all. Being unable to keep it is directly related to YHWH ending it.

The Jewish people got judged... YHWH used Rome just like he used the Persians and Babylonians... The key words of Jesus were "This Generation shall not pass away until all these things take place..." And, they took place...

 
You have mistaken a figure of speech for something literal. When we say "I follow the 613 laws" it means that we acknowledge them all, and we keep those which apply to us and are possible to keep. It does NOT mean that we literally obey all 613, including those that do not apply to us. I'm sure that J didn't obey the laws for women or priests. But he still kept the 613, as the figure of speech goes.
You have mistaken what you just said...for truth despite the error you admit to here:

You said, ""If sin is the trasngression of the law, in order to be sinless, he would have had to have kept all the 613 laws perfectly."

Now you say, " It does NOT mean that we literally obey all 613, including those that do not apply to us." Now I'm wondering why you even posted in the first place, when you don't even believe what you say.
 
But you have not kept the Mosaic laws.
Actually I keep the Mosaic laws all the time.

When a person says they keep the Law, it of course excludes those for the opposite sex, or for priests (if they aren't a kohan) and those which are impossible to keep. The fact that there is no temple for sacrifice means I am not obligated to give sacrifice. This really isn't rocket science stuff.
 
I believe this is where you miss it. The Mosaic Law has been dead since 30-33 AD.
No it hasn't. In fact, even Jesus said that not even a brushstroke would pass away from the law as long until heaven and earth pass away. Have heaven and earth passed away? Nope.
 
You have mistaken what you just said...for truth despite the error you admit to here:

You said, ""If sin is the trasngression of the law, in order to be sinless, he would have had to have kept all the 613 laws perfectly."

Now you say, " It does NOT mean that we literally obey all 613, including those that do not apply to us." Now I'm wondering why you even posted in the first place, when you don't even believe what you say.
I do accept the figurative meaning of what I said. Since I didn't mean it literally, it is a mistake for you to interpret it that way.
 
I do accept the figurative meaning of what I said. Since I didn't mean it literally, it is a mistake for you to interpret it that way.
Since you wrote in English, both YP and I read what you wrote as if you were an English speaker. When you break the rules of the English language, it’s incumbent upon you to clarify the rules you have invented. When you don’t mean what you say, let us know. You can say anything you like, as long as we know you recognize that it is meaningless.
 
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