Does God know the difference between good and evil?

[shnarkle]

Genesis 3:22
Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil...."

God knows good and evil. He also knows the difference between the two.

Again, my point is spotlighted quite accurately in your numerous and lengthy posts. Satan says: "For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil." Genesis 3:5

This is what you have already claimed is true, or at least partially true, and truth be told, this is what you're basing your argument on. This is where what you claim is most accurately articulated. As accurate as it may be, it is still coming from Satan who we are informed is "the father of lies". To father lies means that is what is conceived and produced.

Some people can't accept simple biological references and must interject their own baseless and contradictory ideas into the mix by suggesting that one who not only fathers lies but is THE father of lies can also father the truth which is a blatant contradiction of what scripture clearly teaches. For example, good trees produce good fruit while evil trees produce evil fruit.

Again, let's compare what God says to what Satan says:

Satan says: " For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

God says: " "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil...."

Note that in both quotations, neither God nor Satan actually even suggests, much less claims that they will be like God himself. Satan says they will be "as gods" while God says they are "like one of us". Which one? God doesn't say which one, and he certainly never says that they are like God. The context indicates that Satan knows the difference between good and evil. We also have references from the prophet Ezekiel describing Satan's fall into iniquity. We don't see any references like this with God.

 

[SDAchristian]

Prologue: Chronology of events with statements, help determine human patient Zero on the infection of sin.

AV 1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

Paul's version.

Let us have some common spiritual sense !!!

Note the Genesis 3 text states Eve saw the fruit was desirable and good for learning.

AV Gn 3:1-6 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? 2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: 3 But of the fruit of the tree which [is] in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: 5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. 6 And when the woman saw that the tree [was] good for food, and that it [was] pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make [one] wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

I will note that verse 6 is a narrative statement by Moses, but I believe Moses had a good source though.

This a statement in verse 6, is AFTER talking to the serpent !!! So who is patient zero as a human being infected with sin ???

AV Gn 3:11 And he said, Who told thee that thou [wast] naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?

A good discussion at this point is the original sin, was to disobey GOD, Right ???

Who can determine if the serpent's statements affect her thinking before making her statement afterwards ???

IOW: When did she become infected ???

Yours in Christ, Michael

 

[Josheb]

A good discussion at this point is the original sin, was to disobey GOD, Right ???

No, I reject that premise; I do not think it a good discussion at this point. Folks are having a challenging enough time sticking to the single question, "Does God know the difference between good and evil?" God's knowledge has nothing to do with human conduct.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Satan, we are informed, is the father of lies, and yet most people believe him when he tells Adam and Eve that eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil will make them like God.

Why do we feel this need to believe Satan's claims?

Because the FEEL BETTER to us than God's claims. They appeal to the FLESH, and following satan is sensually satisfying. so in the SHORT TERM, satan's offers are more interesting that God's offers.

 

[SDAchristian]

Prologue:
AV Gn 50:17-20 So shall ye say unto Joseph, Forgive, I pray thee now, the trespass of thy brethren, and their sin; for they did unto thee evil: and now, we pray thee, forgive the trespass of the servants of the God of thy father. And Joseph wept when they spake unto him. 18 And his brethren also went and fell down before his face; and they said, Behold, we [be] thy servants. 19 And Joseph said unto them, Fear not: for [am] I in the place of God? 20 But as for you, ye thought evil against me; [but] God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as [it is] this day, to save much people alive.

No, I reject that premise; I do not think it a good discussion at this point. Folks are having a challenging enough time sticking to the single question, "Does God know the difference between good and evil?" God's knowledge has nothing to do with human conduct.

I disagree with your point of view.

Here is why:

AV Ps 51:4 Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done [this] evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, [and] be clear when thou judgest.

You have disconnected the association of sin and "evil", in your development of your question, and opinion.

-AND-

AV Eph 5:9 (For the fruit of the Spirit [is] in all goodness and righteousness and truth; )

You have disconnected the association of "good" and righteousness, in your development of your question, and opinion.

"Does God know the difference between good and evil?", could be written as "Does God know the difference between good/(righteousness) and evil/(sin)?", Can you see this now ???

God's knowledge has nothing to do with human conduct.

AV Ja 4:11-12 Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of [his] brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge. 12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?

I can identify your loyalty by these verses.

AV 1C 15:56 The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.

Wrong, sin/"evil" is defined by GOD's law for created sentient beings, in GOD's Omniscient Knowledge.

If you can not recognize that, then your fate is between you and what GOD has said.

Yours in Christ, Michael

 

[Josheb]

You have disconnected the association of "good" and righteousness, in your development of your question, and opinion.

I have not.

"Does God know the difference between good and evil?", could be written as "Does God know the difference between good/(righteousness) and evil/(sin)?", Can you see this now ???

I made that very same exact point several posts ago, and have done so in scores of posts in scores of threads scores of times (see posts #7, 41, 61, and 62).

Has nothing to do with original sin.

 

[SDAchristian]

Has nothing to do with original sin.

AV 1C 15:56 The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.

Are you differentiating, original sin in a human versus a created sentient being ???

What was each "original sin" in both, and the law that was broken, Please ???

Yours in Christ, Michael

 

[Josheb]

AV 1C 15:56 The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.

Are you differentiating, original sin in a human versus a created sentient being ???

No, humans are created sentient beings.

What was each "original sin" in both, and the law that was broken, Please ???

Yours in Christ, Michael

Unrighteousness, a lack of faith, and disobedience, of course. I have already answered these questions. Why am I being asked questioned that were answered before they were asked?

 

[SDAchristian]

Prologue: Your dodge of intent is noted. I will accept the wording as my issue, not being spiritually abuse proof by others.

No, humans are created sentient beings.

Are Angels as "created sentient beings" considered to be humans then ???

Are humans as "created sentient beings" considered to be Angels then ???

Yours in Christ, Michael

 

[SDAchristian]

Prologue:
A good topic always circles back around.

Why am I being asked questioned that were answered before they were asked?

It happens in apologetics, when others do not possess a knowledge base in common.

I wonder if others will be like GOD's Omniscience in dealing with others of lesser knowledge.

Satan has dealt with others of lesser knowledge too, like they did with Eve in the original sin, Right ???

Did Lucifer understand the reasons of being excluded from heaven ???

Yours in Christ, Michael

 

[Josheb]

Are Angels as "created sentient beings" considered to be humans then ???

No, and nothing I have posted should be construed to say otherwise.

Are humans as "created sentient beings" considered to be Angels then ???

No, and nothing I have posted should be construed to say otherwise.



However, the word for "angel" simply means "messenger," and messengers of God come in many forms, some of the angelic and some of them human. The text and context informs our understanding which is which and the two should not be conflated.

 

[Josheb]

Did Lucifer understand the reasons of being excluded from heaven ???

Any answer any might give would be speculative since scripture is silent regarding satan's understanding of that matter.

However, given Jude 1:6, I am inclined to think he does know and has always known. He may not understand the reality of that truth but the fact that is truth is something he knows.

 

[SDAchristian]

Did Lucifer understand the reasons of being excluded from heaven ???

Any answer any might give would be speculative since scripture is silent regarding satan's understanding of that matter.

AV Ezk 28:15 Thou [wast] perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity{H5766 `evel} was found in thee.

Knowing GOD's testimony is part of the answer for "Lucifer".

However, given Jude 1:6, I am inclined to think he does know and has always known. He may not understand the reality of that truth but the fact that is truth is something he knows.

AV Jn 8:44-46 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. 45 And because I tell [you] the truth, ye believe me not. 46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?

Many have the choice of picking their own spiritual father. I can tell by GOD's Truth or polluted version of the truth(lies), who serves whom.

The best crafted lies are truth with a lie added. "Lucifer" knows this well.

Check Question: Is Truth still wholly the Truth when a lie is added to any Truth of GOD ???

So do you abide solely in GOD's Truth, that you are aware of now, and will become aware of fully later ???

Yours in Christ, Michael

 

[Josheb]

Knowing GOD's testimony is part of the answer for "Lucifer".

So the answer to the question asked is, "Yes, Lucifer did understand the reasons for being excluded from heaven."

The best crafted lies are truth with a lie added. "Lucifer" knows this well.

Partial truths are not truth.

Check Question: Is Truth still wholly the Truth when a lie is added to any Truth of GOD ???

No. Truth and falsehoods asserted with an intent to deceive (i.e., lies) are mutually exclusive conditions. This is sorta the crux of the issue because the meagerest of sin makes whatever was previously righteous sinful, sinfully sinful. You just quoted an example of this from scripture: perfect until iniquity was found. Then no longer perfect. Antithesis is not thesis.

So do you abide solely in GOD's Truth, that you are aware of now, and will become aware of fully later ???

You're asking me my personal opinion? You're making this discussion personal?

Please do not do that.

Make the salient point or re-word the question so as to get to your point without making the discussion personal.

 

[Yakuda]

Satan, we are informed, is the father of lies, and yet most people believe him when he tells Adam and Eve that eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil will make them like God.

Why do we feel this need to believe Satan's claims? What reason could we possibly have to believe the father of lies? Does it make sense for God to know the difference between good and evil?

Does one have to know what is good to be good? Conversely, if one is good, does it then necessarily follow that one will know it?

We see all of creation placed before us and God says that it is all good, but the seas teaming with fish do not know they are good. Neither the bouquet of flowers nor the butterflies flittering from one to another know that they are good.

One would assume that God knows these things are good, but the fact is that for God to say anything is incoherent if there is no one to speak to in the first place.

An epistemology is not an ontology, and what can be known can never come close to approaching who God is. Existence trumps knowledge.

By the same token, conscious awareness is far more encompassing than mere knowledge. One can be aware of far more than they know. One can be aware of much that is completely incomprehensible.

Just as a good tree can only produce good fruit, God can only produce or create what is good. God can easily be aware of these facts without ever knowing it.

Christ is the only mediator necessary and adding the intellect in as an additional mediator is superfluous and completely unnecessary, and can probably only demean, dull or deprive one's conscious awareness of God's goodness and grace.

Additionally, transcendence necessarily must transcend the realm of ideas. Therefore, a transcendent God must as well. By the same token, transcendence can never descend to the roundtable of human morality. Only Satan would want to, and he wants to reign over human morality.

Satan did lie. He told Eve, "You will certainly not die" if they are fron the forbidden tree. We also don't know that eating of that tree would make them like God. God just tells Adam and Eve not to eat from that tree but never tells them why they shouldn't eat from it. Maybe satan was lying when he said what he did about their eating from the tree. Maybe it was just a tree. Maybe man was never able to know what God knows. Maybe it was just a test to see if Adam and Eve would obey.

 

[SDAchristian]

Prologue:
AV 1Jn 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

AV Isa 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, [from] doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking [thine own] words:

The sabbath is a good opinion test question of whether we know our GOD or not.

You're asking me my personal opinion? You're making this discussion personal?
...
Make the salient point or re-word the question so as to get to your point without making the discussion personal.

"You're asking me my personal opinion? You're making this discussion personal?", Yes & Yes. You do know that GOD does as well, Right ???

AV Jn 8:44-45 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. 45 And because I tell [you] the truth, ye believe me not.

"Make the salient point or re-word the question so as to get to your point without making the discussion personal.", Impossible during this Controversy about GOD. One side will tell the Truth, no matter what. The other side share their father's lies.

Check Question:

AV Hb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Jesus Christ in the flesh, is "the same yesterday" in walking on earth, "to day" walking in heaven "and for ever" walking in Heaven in life eternal with all the saints.

In your opinion, Does GOD still have "the sabbath" as Their "my holy day" ???

Does Jesus, Noting Hebrew 13:8, keep sabbath in heaven ???

AV Lv 4:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, ...
AV Lv 5:6 And he shall bring his trespass offering unto the LORD for his sin which he hath sinned, a female from the flock, a lamb or a kid of the goats, for a sin offering; and the priest shall make an atonement for him concerning his sin.

Let us do make it personal, Did Jesus' righteousness, including Jesus' sabbath righteousness atone for sabbath sins ???

Yours in Christ, Michael

 

[Josheb]

Yes & Yes. You do know that GOD does as well, Right ???

When you get to be God then you may do the same. Until then keep the posts on topic and about the posts, not the posters.

 

[shnarkle]

ye thought evil against me; [but] God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as [it is] this day, to save much people alive.

As Jesus points out, "only God is (ontologically speaking) good." We tend to infuse everything we see with meaning even to the point of creating these epistemological treatises on God which can only demean or create idols.

You have disconnected the association of sin and "evil", in your development of your question, and opinion.

-AND-

AV Eph 5:9 (For the fruit of the Spirit [is] in all goodness and righteousness and truth; )

Note that the fruit of the Spirit is not in the meaning or knowledge of goodness and righteousness and truth. See the issue?

You have disconnected the association of "good" and righteousness, in your development of your question, and opinion.

"Does God know the difference between good and evil?", could be written as "Does God know the difference between good/(righteousness) and evil/(sin)?", Can you see this now ???

This doesn't advance the crux of the issue with the OP which is the distinction between the righteousness and sin versus the knowledge or meaning of righteousness and sin.

AV Ja 4:11-12 Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of [his] brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge. 12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?


AV 1C 15:56 The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.

Again, note that the sting of death is not in the meaning or knowledge of sin, nor is the strength of sin in the meaning or knowledge of the law.

Wrong, sin/"evil" is defined by GOD's law for created sentient beings, in GOD's Omniscient Knowledge.

 

[BMS]

Why?

So while they had no prior knowledge, and really no idea what they were doing, and even though they felt no need to do what they did, they did it anyways? Why, without any prior knowledge, would they do what they felt no need to do in the first place?

And? I don't know anyone who would assume that Adam and Eve were sinful prior to actually sinning.

I'm familiar with the passage in question. What's your point?

Speak for yourself. I'm not the one who believes his claims, and please reread the OP and note where I point that out.

Perhaps you might want to reread those chapters again as Adam and Eve do not have the faculty of reason to begin with. No one can reason without knowing, and prior to the fall Adam and Even cannot know the difference between good and evil. If they could reason out the difference then they would know the difference between good and evil.

Not that it really matters to this discussion, but it is only Eve who is completely seduced by Satan, and Paul is referring to future events, not the events between our Grand Parents and Satan in the garden of Eden.

Strawman argument. Relevance to the OP?

This is all beside the point of this OP which is whether or not God knows the difference between good and evil.

Its a great OP question

However there is no requirement for prior knowledge. Since God said don't eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, they couldn't have had the knowledge when they ate the apple. The serpent told them they wouldnt die, and indeed in the flesh they didnt, which is what people see and believe until they get the revelation of God.