Debate: Trent Horn vs Steve Christie (Marian dogmas)
- Thread starter BornAgainRN
- Start date
pilgrim
Well-known member
The Church agree with you? I am sure it is the other way around.
We are to judge behaviors but we are not to judge souls.
Not even remotely…..but take note that your own church doesn’t agree with your personal interpretation of Matt 7.
Ah, crawfishing now I see...
pilgrim said:
The Bible also warns not to judge.
4Him said:
Quite the opposite....
"Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.”
pilgrim said:
Matthew 7:1 “Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you.
4Him said:
You left out the context, as do most that are biblically ignorant on this subject. This is NOT telling you not to judge, but HOW to judge....by first examining yourself to be able to judge righteously as we are told to.
“Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. 3 And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye’; and look, a plank is in your own eye? 5 Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
pilgrim said:
“Judge not, that you be not judged.
I think Matthew can speak for himself.
You got called out on your utterly wrong interpretation of Matt 7 that your own church disagrees with you on, so now you just did a 180 instead of just admitting you were mistaken.
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pilgrim
Well-known member
My understanding has not changed one bit, regardless of what you claim. The Church has always taught that we must discern right from wrong.
I do think Matthew 7 is a problem for those think they will not have to stand before God and be judged.
Your church disagrees with your personal interpretation of Matt 7 and everyone can see the 180 you just did.
No Christian thinks they don’t have to stand before God. Not one.
pilgrim
Well-known member
We are not to judge someones eternal destiny. Do you agree or not?
pilgrim
Well-known member
Not what I said.
That wasn’t even part of the discussion, so don’t even try to go there.
THIS was the exchange….and note your response was to someone that was in no way, shape or form judging anyones eternal destiny.
pilgrim said:
The Bible also warns not to judge.
4Him said:
Quite the opposite....
"Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.”
pilgrim said:
Matthew 7:1 “Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you.
4Him said:
You left out the context, as do most that are biblically ignorant on this subject. This is NOT telling you not to judge, but HOW to judge....by first examining yourself to be able to judge righteously as we are told to.
“Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. 3 And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye’; and look, a plank is in your own eye? 5 Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
pilgrim said:
“Judge not, that you be not judged.
I think Matthew can speak for himself.
pilgrim said:
I do think Matthew 7 is a problem for those think they will not have to stand before God and be judged.
And no one has. The only one that has implied we are judging souls is you. RCs judge all the time I mean they call people heretics etc. So many insults. No one has judge the final destination and all non RC's posters have made that point.
You are bearing false witness with your implications from the start.
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Oh yes it has. You have done a complete about face. Every person has to stand before God and be judged you are just trying to escape the false claims you posted originally. Everyone can see you false implications that there were people who think they will not stand before God. You are the only one who has said that.
Oh but you implied it. Still trying to dig your way out of the hole you are in.
It is what you said you said no one is to judge and you implied exactly what you say you did not say. Reading into the posts of others things they did not even imply, shows what one of your problems is when it comes to scripture you read things into it.
Bonnie
Super Member
My church doesn't teach "caricatures" about what your church teaches. Besides, I don't look at my church's writings, when I do research on Catholicism.
You can "believe" it all you want to, but that doesn't mean you do. IF Catholics did have the HS, they wouldn't have elected a lot of lousy popes; nor would they pray to the physically dead; nor would they have popes as leaders who must be obeyed in order to have salvation; nor would they forbid marriage to single priests; nor would they teach such false doctrines as Mary's PV, IC, and being crowned Queen of heaven; nor would they teach and believe in Purgatory...
Why should I stop reading Catholic documents?
Which is what happens when we believe in Jesus Christ as Lord and God and Savior, who saves us completely.
Works don't increase our capacity to bear the Grace of God in our hearts. That sounds rather silly. The HS enables us to do what He wants us to do and this is all grace--His undeserved love/merit, on account of what Jesus Christ did for us on the cross, which is ours BY FAITH.
That is what it is for us, too, but not just through Baptism by by coming to faith in Jesus Christ, even without Baptism. Remember what Peter said in Acts 15, NASB:
God gives us His grace through Holy Baptism, the Lord's Supper, and by believing in His Holy Gospel, even before one has had a chance to be baptized or partake of the Eucharist.
But those works do NOT help to save us. "He saved us, NOT on account of works which we have done in righteousness, but on account of His mercy." (Titus)
Did you? I think you said Boniface's Bull didn't apply to Protestants back then because they didn't exist when he wrote that (paraphrasing). But didn't you also say it still applied today? So, does it only apply to Catholics OR does it apply to everyone now, since Protestants DO exist today?
Okay. But then, how are Popes picked? Does the HS not encourage the college of cardinals to make the right choice? OR is it all politics? What?
Unfortunately, your church's leadership has ignored the HS and what the Bible teaches and has taught reams of error for hundreds of years.
Well, Alex the VI certainly was not! So, only some are chosen by the HS...so, who chooses the others?
Seems to me your church has been derailed from the truth of what the Bible actually teaches, for centuries now.
No, it is no caricature. Look at the Marian festival in Seville, Spain. A dreadful, idolatrous spectacle if ever there was one! Just because Catholics refuse to believe it is idolatry, doesn't make it less so!
What your church teaches. Its popes have been teaching errors for centuries; therefore, it has no authority from God anymore.
Not YOUR church. It doesn't uphold the truth of God's word, but has dragged in heretical doctrines that are nowhere in Scripture, or even hinted at.
NOW who is using a caricature, in this case, of what Martin Luther did? And I do note the "Marty" to show contempt for him. Childish.
Luther went to the Bible, reading the NT in the original Greek and spotted errors in translation, such as your church translating the Greek word for "repent" as "do penance." But he found the truth about justification before God within the pages of Romans. He believed what Paul wrote. Was what Paul wrote only HIS opinions?
Why? The Lutherans there would probably be more than willing to discuss such errors with you. I know I would.
You seem to think they exist, so why not tell us what they are?
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RayneBeau
Well-known member
Ah yes, don't you just love the way the RCC cleverly changed the 10 commandments - it is a true work of Satan. The RCC ignores the second of the 10 Commandments by numbering the commandments in an odd way. If you compare the commandments in the Bible with those in the RCC Catechism, you will see that the 1st Commandment as recorded in both the Bible and the RCC Catechism is identical. However, when the RCC came to 2nd commandment, which forbids the making of sacred images, the RCC omitted from the RCC Catechism.
How then does the RCC still have 10 commandments in their own Catechism if one is omitted? Hmm-m-m-m-m? Well, this "magic act" of Satan's trickery happened when the Roman Catholic Church numbered the commandments so that God's 3rd commandment in the Bible magically became the 2nd Commandment in the RCC Catechism, and the 4th Commandment in the Bible became the 3rd Commandment in the RCC, and the God's 5th Commandment in the Bible became the 4th in the RCC and so on. When the Roman Catholic Church came to the 10th commandment (which forbids coveting), then the RCC had two commandments devilishly created from it which is God's 9th Commandment - do not covet your neighbor's wife, and God's 10th Commandment - do not covet your neighbor's goods. By making two commandments out of the 10th commandment and omitting God's Commandment forbidding the making of sacred images, the Church of Roman Catholicism is able to have 10 commandments that are of their creation.
pilgrim
Well-known member
It is very unwise to ascribe the work of God, which the Church is, to the devil.Ah yes, don't you just love the way the RCC cleverly changed the 10 commandments - it is a true work of Satan. The RCC ignores the second of the 10 Commandments by numbering the commandments in an odd way. If you compare the commandments in the Bible with those in the RCC Catechism, you will see that the 1st Commandment as recorded in both the Bible and the RCC Catechism is identical. However, when the RCC came to 2nd commandment, which forbids the making of sacred images, the RCC omitted from the RCC Catechism.
How then does the RCC still have 10 commandments in their own Catechism if one is omitted? Hmm-m-m-m-m? Well, this "magic act" of Satan's trickery happened when the Roman Catholic Church numbered the commandments so that God's 3rd commandment in the Bible magically became the 2nd Commandment in the RCC Catechism, and the 4th Commandment in the Bible became the 3rd Commandment in the RCC, and the God's 5th Commandment in the Bible became the 4th in the RCC and so on. When the Roman Catholic Church came to the 10th commandment (which forbids coveting), then the RCC had two commandments devilishly created from it which is God's 9th Commandment - do not covet your neighbor's wife, and God's 10th Commandment - do not covet your neighbor's goods. By making two commandments out of the 10th commandment and omitting God's Commandment forbidding the making of sacred images, the Church of Roman Catholicism is able to have 10 commandments that are of their creation.
No your institution harms the sheep so it is doing the devil's work and not God's work. Your institution is not established by God and is not ascribed work by Him at all. Its actions throughout the century prove it does the devil's work. It teaches false doctrines, it harms the sheep, it does not follow Jesus or the apostles in actions, it is a bad example.
It is very unwise to pretend that an institution that harms the sheep is doing God's work.
Those are facts that have been proven. So once again you are bearing false witness.
It's even more so to ascribe the works of the Devil to God
or to any of the Apostles
- Peter Rebels and goes to Rome
dingoling. said: So when Jesus said to Peter in Matthew 16, "And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and...
forums.carm.org
now do you wish to answer the question / questions
pilgrim
Well-known member
And I also agree. Be very, very careful what you say.
Matt 12:37 For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned."