The gospel in Genesis.

Leatherneck0311 said:
When Calvinist say what Jesus and Paul taught is not true I will stay with what Jesus and Paul taught and know Calvinist are wrong.
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You say that God's mercy and compassion is dependent on human will and exertion.

Paul said it is not dependent on human will and exertion.
So kindly explain HOW you are staying with what Paul taught?

You say people choose to be in Christ.

Jesus said that only those He (Jesus) chooses to reveal the Father to will KNOW the Father.
So kindly explain HOW you are staying with what Jesus taught?
 
eternomade said:
What did the atonement accomplish?

Was it a possibility to be saved? Is God waiting, hoping that people will believe on His Son?

The gospel is not an offer, or invitation. It's a declaration, proclamation of who Jesus is and what He accomplished. He didn't do 99% and leave sinners with the 1%.

The issue is we believe different gospels. You add faith as a condition man must fulfill in order to be saved. I believe in free and sovereign grace. I believe that Jesus fulfilled all conditions necessary, and that faith is a fruit of the Spirit.
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This is an interesting observation, and one which seems to align with Paul's comments that through Adam sin entered the world, and likewise, through Christ we have redemption. It does seem a bit lopsided for all of fallen humanity to be damned through the fault of one person regardless of what one does or not while only those who do the right thing can possibly be saved.
 
eternomade said:
If you want to discuss what I actually said, I am willing to. I did not say God believes and repents for me. Let's discuss John 6. Why did many disciples walk away after he said this:
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Never said you did

Just reminding one and all who deny man's ability to believe or states there is nothing for man to do that God does not do it for you


eternomade said:
"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him."
John 6:63‭-‬66 KJV
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Quite simply at that time Christ was not drawing all people to himself

He spoke to men in parables so they would not understand

He told men not to disclose who he was at that time

Drove many away with difficult saying such as eat my flesh, drink my blood and did not offer an explanation

God was actively hardening most of Israel

Rather a select band was being selected who would carry the gospel unto the world after his death and resurrection

those who had heard and learned from the Father

It was after the cross that


John 12:32 (KJV 1900)
32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

and that he would commission the gospel which was to be preached to all

and the published gospel would now be the means by which men could come to Christ

Romans 10:10–17 (KJV 1900)
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
 
sundance said:
So you believe God can't be disappointed?

It is common for man to see God as they see themselves. We usually call these vain imagination. Idols.
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We can be disappointed; therefore, some people project that onto God; but, God works all things according the counsel of his own will; so, he cannot be disappointed.
 
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Carbon said:
Whether Calvinist or Arminian. ?
You Calvinist hater you. ?

Don’t be a hater.
?
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What I hate are lies and half truths. Still waiting for your post# or quote where I said God failed. We both know that isn’t true, but you said I did so where is the proof ? FYI, disagreeing and exposing the errors of Calvinism is not a failure on God’s part it’s a failure on Calvinist.
 
sundance said:
There is no difference in these two statements. No twisting involved. Just misunderstanding on your part.
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So you don't think that there's any difference between:

"God's work is that man believes", and
"Man's work is that man believes"?


sundance said:
I've read the word "might" a few times in the Bible. What does that word mean to you?
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sundance said:
I have references for the word might and I provided a specific verse. I believe I can understand the English word "might" without needing your explanation.
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Okay, so if you didn't want anyone's explanation, then why did you ask?
If you don't want to discuss the issue, why are you on a discussion forum?

But despite your presumptuous claim to understand all things, I'll respond anyway (since this is a discussion forum, after all). A very common context for finding "might" in English translations is in what Greek scholars call "hina" clauses. "Hina" is a Greek word meaning "that", or "so that", and it is frequently used as a "purpose" clause, to explain the purpose of an action. Greek grammar is incredibly precise, and the verb in the "hina" clause HAS to be in the subjunctive mood, requiring the translation "might". This is NO WAY indicates "uncertainty", even of the result of the purpose is 100% certain, the grammar still requires the verb to be in the subjunctive clause.

I noticed you just joined yesterday. Maybe it's too soon for you to represent yourself as a know-it-all. Just sayin'.
 
sundance said:
No. You're the one that believes God can't be disappointed.

God isn't threatened by the sin of anything.
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Since you can read my mind and know what I believe there’s no reason for you to ask me anymore questions.

Oh by the way ,
Welcome to CARM
 
Leatherneck0311 said:
What I hate are lies and half truths. Still waiting for your post# or quote where I said God failed. We both know that isn’t true, but you said I did so where is the proof ? FYI, disagreeing and exposing the errors of Calvinism is not a failure on God’s part it’s a failure on Calvinist.
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The proof is in the pudding.

You won’t like me to break your theology down in one post.
Carry on.
 
Leatherneck0311 said:
What I hate are lies and half truths. Still waiting for your post# or quote where I said God failed. We both know that isn’t true, but you said I did so where is the proof ? FYI, disagreeing and exposing the errors of Calvinism is not a failure on God’s part it’s a failure on Calvinist.
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When you started here, I thought you were a Calvinist?
 
Carbon said:
The proof is in the pudding.

You won’t like me to break your theology down in one post.
Carry on.
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You made the accusation where is the post or quote where I said God failed. My faith in God cannot be shaken by your proof texts and errors. Just remember a false witness is just that a false witness.
 
ReverendRV said:
When you started here, I thought you were a Calvinist?
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To be a Calvinist I would have to believe that God is unjust condemning people to hell for His own good pleasure. I would have to ignore John 3:16 where Jesus said whosoever believes will be saved as I would have to disregard what Paul said to the jailer when asked what must I do to be saved when he was told he had to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved. Scripture is clear that God is long suffering not willing that any should perish. Men perish when they reject and ignore the call of God to repent and believe.
 
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sundance said:
Here is what you originally said.



You could have quoted what you said but your rephrased. Why?
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You are a newbie here, yet you come off as someone with a huge chip on your shoulder. If you would like to have a discussion here, and if you want people to answer your questions, you need to be willing to answer the questions of others. To act otherwise is not reasonable.

So I await your answers to my questions.
 
shnarkle said:
That would necessarily follow, wouldn't it? Why would God predestine what he knows will disappoint himself? Seems like a bit of a masochistic god.

Masochistic gods fit perfectly with that observation.
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No. God isn't a egomaniac. He doesn't need anything. His creation can disappoint Him and he doesn't "fall to pieces" like silly man does.
 
Theo1689 said:
You are a newbie here, yet you come off as someone with a huge chip on your shoulder. If you would like to have a discussion here, and if you want people to answer your questions, you need to be willing to answer the questions of others. To act otherwise is not reasonable.

So I await your answers to my questions.
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Just being systemic. No need to try to "label" me.

You rephrased what you said and pretended you didn't. It is that simple.
 
sundance said:
Just being systemic. No need to try to "label" me.

You rephrased what you said and pretended you didn't. It is that simple.
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And so you continue to dodge my questions.
I guess you're not interested in actual "discussion" (which begs the question of why you're in a "discussion" forum, but you're apparently not willing to answer that question.)

That's unfortunate.

Oh well, I'll reserve my right to continue to respond to your posts for the benefit of the lurkers, knowing that you're not interested in responding.

Have a nice day.
 
Leatherneck0311 said:
To be a Calvinist I would have to believe that God is unjust condemning people to hell for His own good pleasure. I would have to ignore John 3:16 where Jesus said whosoever believes will be saved as I would have to disregard what Paul said to the jailer when asked what must I do to be saved when he was told he had to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved. Scripture is clear that God is long suffering not willing that any should perish. Men perish when they reject and ignore the call of God to repent and believe.
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There you go proof texting again. ?
 
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