Leatherneck0311
Well-known member
Saved by grace through faith no where does scripture teach that you don’t have a choice when confronted with truth.IMO you have no idea what that passage is teaching.
trying to help
Saved by grace through faith no where does scripture teach that you don’t have a choice when confronted with truth.IMO you have no idea what that passage is teaching.
trying to help
Ditto you have no clue your blinders are on tight.IMO you have no idea what that passage is teaching.
trying to help
You obviously dont know what I believe concerning this.Saved by grace through faith no where does scripture teach that you don’t have a choice when confronted with truth.
Oh yea, those Calvinist blinders huh?Ditto you have no clue your blinders are on tight.
BBL , I lost my cool over a blatant lie and worse the one lying turned the whole incident into a joke. I do believe lying is still a sin. Later.This is very ambiguous; can you expand it further for us?
Bud, you got your feathers all ruffled.BBL , I lost my cool over a blatant lie and worse the one lying turned the whole incident into a joke. I do believe lying is still a sin. Later.
Good, so we must be regenerated by the Holy Spirit prior to Faith, correct?I never said nor implied that anyone goes to God without the Holy Spirit convicting that person,
So, is this a partial Regeneration? And if so, where in Scripture, can I find such a teaching? How do you deal with these passages:but some quench the Holy Spirit preferring their sin over God. God does not force folks to believe.
Saved by grace through faith no where does scripture teach that you don’t have a choice when confronted with truth.
You are either skimming over his passages or just want to be silly.I never said nor implied that anyone goes to God without the Holy Spirit convicting that person, but some quench the Holy Spirit preferring their sin over God. God does not force folks to believe.
Agreed!I love how heretics always resort to the double negative, instead of even attempting to prove the positive doctrine.
In effect, this is an argument from silence, which is fallacious.
Scripture says we are "dead in trespasses and sins". Do dead people have a "choice" to become alive?
Scripture says we are "slaves to sin". Do slaves have a "choice" to be free? (Maybe the Civil war was unnecessary?)
Jesus taught that "no man can come to Him", if the Father didn't draw him.
Does that sound like someone can "choose" to come to Him?
Amen Brother! I think they look at the fall as a time out, we're not that bad, we're good people.I love how heretics always resort to the double negative, instead of even attempting to prove the positive doctrine.
In effect, this is an argument from silence, which is fallacious.
Scripture says we are "dead in trespasses and sins". Do dead people have a "choice" to become alive?
Scripture says we are "slaves to sin". Do slaves have a "choice" to be free? (Maybe the Civil war was unnecessary?)
Jesus taught that "no man can come to Him", if the Father didn't draw him.
Does that sound like someone can "choose" to come to Him?
I am the ugly Calvinist who eats little kids, and terrorize villagers. I am Baba Yaga! Just kidding, being silly.Agreed!
And I have no issue talking with him or anyone else about these things. But leave out the, judging me because I’m a Calvinist. That’s not the makings of good discussions.
You meanie!I am the ugly Calvinist who eats little kids, and terrorize villagers. I am Baba Yaga! Just kidding, being silly.
Well lets see what a dead man can doI love how heretics always resort to the double negative, instead of even attempting to prove the positive doctrine.
In effect, this is an argument from silence, which is fallacious.
Scripture says we are "dead in trespasses and sins". Do dead people have a "choice" to become alive?
Scripture says we are "slaves to sin". Do slaves have a "choice" to be free? (Maybe the Civil war was unnecessary?)
Jesus taught that "no man can come to Him", if the Father didn't draw him.
Does that sound like someone can "choose" to come to Him?
Strawman argument. I'm not criticizing Jesus Christ. I'm making an observation of your god which should never be confused with the biblical God.You seem comfortable criticizing Jesus Christ.
When I say universal application, I mean that it applies universally not to just to one group. God’s Word is alive and active, getting right to our heart, exposing the very thoughts and intent. This applies to both saved and unsaved. Why? Because God's Word is alive and active! It does not matter if the hearer is unbelieving, God's Word is still alive and active.What do you mean by application? This is written to believers not unbelievers. The application is discerning the heart and revealing it to us. God’s work in our sanctification and conforming us to the image of Christ.
I agree that it was written to believers, and I also agree it is to reveal our heart to us. But God’s Word is not only for sanctification and conformation, but for preaching to the lost that they too may have the sin of their heart exposed, and that is why we preach repent and be saved. God’s Word is alive and active no matter what...that is my point. We were born again by the Living and active Word of God. We were in unbelief and it exposed our sin.Why would God discern the intentions and thoughts of the unsaved heart? How are the unsaved striving to enter rest in Christ?
Hebrews 4:11,
Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience.
Yes, I know it is, but God's word is always alive and active is it not?Again, the epistle is to believers. But no where in scripture does it teach what you are trying to say.
The writer of Hebrews used 12-13 as a was warning to the believers not to fall into disobedience like the unbelieving Jews of Moses day. Please understand verses 12-13 is universal application, in that ALL must give an account before God. When God’s Word is preached it cuts through and exposes our sin. As Jesus told Nicodemus, those who love the darkness will not come into the light because their deeds are evil…These are the ones who heard and disbelieve because they love the darkness. It is not that God’s Word was dead and inactive, not exposing their sinful thoughts and intents. It is that they reject it for the love of sin. But those who do what is right come into the light to show they are doing what God wants…These are believers.No comment.
I will say however, what your trying to explain by taking the passage out of context is a form of prevenient grace. Which has no part in it.
Grace and faith cannot be separated because grace causes faith.IMO you have no idea what that passage is teaching.
trying to help
I've been reading through John a lot lately. I see he makes many two sided distinctions. Darkness and light etc.This is an interesting observation, and one which seems to align with Paul's comments that through Adam sin entered the world, and likewise, through Christ we have redemption. It does seem a bit lopsided for all of fallen humanity to be damned through the fault of one person regardless of what one does or not while only those who do the right thing can possibly be saved.
Of course God’s word is active and alive Joe, I agree.When I say universal application, I mean that it applies universally not to just to one group. God’s Word is alive and active, getting right to our heart, exposing the very thoughts and intent. This applies to both saved and unsaved. Why? Because God's Word is alive and active! It does not matter if the hearer is unbelieving, God's Word is still alive and active.
Good I’m glad you agree here, as I thought you would.I agree that it was written to believers, and I also agree it is to reveal our heart to us. But God’s Word is not only for sanctification and conformation,
but for preaching to the lost that they too may have the sin of their heart exposed,
That’s what we are told to preach, why wouldn’t we?and that is why we preach repent and be saved.
Of course. And God talks to His people through the word.God’s Word is alive and active no matter what...that is my point.
We were born again be the Holy Spirit as Jesus taught. When the new heart hears the word, he believes.We were born again by the Living and active Word of God. We were in unbelief and it exposed our sin.
Depends on what passages your using actually. When Jesus said, I lay down my life for the sheep, that wasn’t to the reprobate, although they may here it.You seem fixated that God’s Word is only alive and active only to the believer, and this is not the case.
Joe, read it in context, for what it says, try not to let your theology seep in.And this is the reason why I asked you, “Are you saying if it is an unbeliever God's Word is not living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart?
No one is hidden from His sight, He’s God. And yes the reprobate are accountable. But again Joe, that’s not the context.And that an unbeliever is excluded from His sight, not naked and exposed, and will not give an account?”…Please answer.
The ones that listened were God’s sheep obviously.Didn’t the Word of God get spoken to the Israelite's before crossing the river Jordan? How did they respond except for a few? In unbelief. They were given God’s Word and did not believe, so unbelievers were given God’s Word that is alive and active, and they did not trust God. Did God’s Word fail to be alive and active? No. What happened? The people failed to trust God.
Scripture says so.Yes, I know it is, but God's word is always alive and active is it not?
Your trying to say prevenient grace is scriptural.And what am I trying to say Carbon?
The writer of Hebrews used 12-13 as a was warning to the believers not to fall into disobedience like the unbelieving Jews of Moses day.
Of course. And it is expressing who God is.Please understand verses 12-13 is universal application, in that ALL must give an account before God.
When God’s Word is preached it cuts through and exposes our sin.
I don’t disagree.As Jesus told Nicodemus, those who love the darkness will not come into the light because their deeds are evil…These are the ones who heard and disbelieve because they love the darkness.
Why do you keep stressing this? I never said it was. ?It is not that God’s Word was dead and inactive,
I’ll pass on this for now.not exposing their sinful thoughts and intents. It is that they reject it for the love of sin. But those who do what is right come into the light to show they are doing what God wants…These are believers.
Well at least your changing your story.And no, I’m not taking the passage out of context. The writer of Hebrews used it as a universal application that ALL must give an account before God. This is believers and unbelievers alike.
Joe, I’m not concerned with ending the debate. I don’t really see a debate. I just stated some facts and you can agree or disagree.So when is God’s Word not alive and active? Please answer. I’m quite sure you know the correct answer and it will end the debate.
God bless
Brother, I have not changed my story. You are now beginning to realize what I meant after I responded to your posts. You are not there yet.Of course God’s word is active and alive Joe, I agree.
your just using the passage out of context imo.
Good I’m glad you agree here, as I thought you would.
That’s what we are told to preach, why wouldn’t we?
Of course. And God talks to His people through the word.
We were born again be the Holy Spirit as Jesus taught. When the new heart hears the word, he believes.
Depends on what passages your using actually. When Jesus said, I lay down my life for the sheep, that wasn’t to the reprobate, although they may here it.
Joe, read it in context, for what it says, try not to let your theology seep in.
No one is hidden from His sight, He’s God. And yes the reprobate are accountable. But again Joe, that’s not the context.
The ones that listened were God’s sheep obviously.
Scripture says so.
Your trying to say prevenient grace is scriptural.
Of course. And it is expressing who God is.
I don’t disagree.
Why do you keep stressing this? I never said it was. ?
I’ll pass on this for now.
Well at least your changing your story.
I agree with that.
Joe, I’m not concerned with ending the debate. I don’t really see a debate. I just stated some facts and you can agree or disagree.
If you would like to keep discussing this, I’m fine with that also